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How much does Moss' presence help Welker?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    We're all constantly amazed and impressed with Welker's ability to make tough catches, pop up after a nasty hit etc... some have noted that Welker benefits from Moss' deep presence, effectively opening things up in the middle for him.

    I'm wondering whether people feel that's true. I'd say it was definitely true last year, with Moss potentially over-used and so many passes going his way. This season I think DC's have noted that Moss and Cassel are not nearly as dangerous as Moss and Brady were - and I've seen Moss with more single coverage situations this season as a result, meaning that Moss might not be drawing as much coverage off of Welker as he was last year.

    Yet Welker continues to deliver and have very big games, amid some very heavy coverage.

    While I think we'd still need to have a credible deep threat WR on the field, my feeling is that Welker is enough of a talent to get himself open even without Moss on the field.

    I guess I'm saying that this season, it seems like Welker's getting more of the Defensive attention than Moss is. Anyone feel the same? Other insights that they care to provide?
     
  2. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Just my .02, but my answer would be hell, no Welker is not getting more attention than Moss and yes, Moss' presence helps Welker a lot. Welker gets open a lot, and in a huge part thanks to the attention Moss draws.

    Not to take anything away from Welker as it takes a lot of guts to take a pounding from LBs and safeties, but he's largely finding open spots in zone coverages or beating LBs one on one. Again, not to take anything away from Welker, but his job of getting open is a hell of a lot easier than Moss', who not only draws the best CB on the team, but more often than not, is facing safety help over the top.
     
  3. ctpatsfan77

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    At least some of the time, Welker does in fact help Moss get open. As a key example, consider the 50/23 TD against the Giants. The Giants were so concerned about stopping Brady-to-Welker for a first down that they left Moss in single coverage. Brady saw that, and the rest was, of course, history. :)
     
  4. signbabybrady

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    Welker would certainly be able to get open with out Moss. He is good enough to be able to put up some nasty numbers on his own. But don't for a second think that Moss is not getting as much if not more attention than last year from my very rough guestimation I would be surprised if he hasn't been doubled at least %75 of the time.

    I like to put it this way. If Moss was not here other teams would be able to key in Welker and try and take him away with Moss here they can not do so. Think about how Branch could be taken out of games and think about how it could have been for him if he had Moss instead of Givens.
     
  5. ScottieC

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    The difference between the two is that for Randy, teams have to specifically game plan for him - For Wes, he's a threat anytime, but as a slot receiver he's in coverage so LB's and Safeties have to be aware of his presence at all times, but changing the game plan for Wes does not happen often.......it may be a part of a half time adjustment, but it also seems like Welker's contribution is magnified in the Second half and if that's Bill's game plan - It's F'ing brilliant.
     
  6. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Maybe I'm alone but if I'm a DC going up against the Patriots, noting that Cassel has had limited success finding Moss with the deep ball, I'm going to take some chances and go for a zone or single coverage on Moss.

    I seem to be seeing that more this year than I did last year with Moss taking consistent double and even some triple coverage at times that Brady was trying (often successfully) to force a pass to Moss.

    Recognizing that the middle of the field is by nature, crowded, I see Welker making catches amid much more traffic this season - and I have to think it the coverage placed on Welker can't be too much more tighter than it is (though he still is making his plays)
     
  7. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    Moss' presense would help a lot more if he wasnt "lollygagging" so much. :rolleyes:

    :disagreement:
     
  8. ScottieC

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  9. BPF

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  10. fumbrunner

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    With a safety rolling over to Moss on practically every play, it takes away one player that can come in and cover the middle of the field. There is no question that Moss' presence helps to open up the middle of the field, where Welker has a good chunk of his receptions. He is great on those little screens, but that is all him.
     
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  12. Leave No Doubt

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    Welker's been getting more and more attention imo, last year as well but it's been increasing each week. It's no secret Cassel's been able to hit Wes more often than not-they developed well almost from the beginning.

    Anyway I do think the Moss situation has forced us into Kevin and Wes big time and both have more than lived up to what they had to do. Wes has been getting nailed lately; I have no idea what's up with Randy but for whatever reason he's having more difficulty with his double coverage this year than he did last year. If that issue would somehow work itself out it would be a HUGE plus for us.
     
  13. DocE

    DocE Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Moss's presence is HUGE for Welker. Welker gets a ton of open opportunities because there is 2 (or more) players focused on Randy Moss. The slip screen works so well at times in part because Moss is on the opposite side of the field and the Pats overload the side to which the screen is going. In that sitiuation the defense has a safety and a CB to Moss's side, leaving them one short to the screen side.

    It would be nice if Cassel could actually hit the deep ball (missed another wide open opportunity on Sunday). If Moss had another 5-6 TD's for 200 plus yards that he has every right to have, he wouldn't draw so much unnecessary criticisim.

    I don't think teams will start daring Cassel to go deep by single covering Moss often though. Teams still would rather take their chances that Cassel can methodically move the ball down the field rather than giving him a chance to get a TD with just one throw.

    One more point in the Seattle game, the Seahawks had their best CB in Trufant on Moss along with safety help over the top. On T.O.'s touchdown against Seattle the following week he was matched up one on one in the slot with....LB Julian Peterson.
     
  14. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I completely agree with you. In fact, if the Football Gods (damn them for giving the Mannings the last 2 SBs) told me that I could have only one of Moss or Welker and gain the cap relief of the lost one's salary, then I would choose to keep Welker every time - and twice on Sundays.
     
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