How many teams would bid on Cassel

[hallfamebrady]

As I said in previous posts, I think SF is the best landing spot. Chicago and Min are close seconds

 

[AzPatsFan]

Along with looking at what teams might trade for Cassel, it is worthwhile to look at the college QB alternatives.

The NCAA simply is barren this year. There is simply only one possible alternative.

There is only one QB that is available and who is coming out.
Matthew Souffer 6-3 237 4.8 Georgia
And he is still only a Junior. No matter; in an ordinary year he might be the 4th or 5th QB taken. Using a First Rounder on him is potentially wasting it too.

The other prominent QBs in college ball are underclassmen as well.

Colt MCoy U T a sophomore
and
Sam Bradford 6-4 218 4.75 from Oklahoma. He is the genuine article, but is not coming out and is only a Junior too. He would merit a first round pick in 2010 or 2011.

The only other is Tim Tebow of Florida. Tebow is NOT an NFL QB. He simply can't throw that well, but is a good runner. Someone drafting him as an NFL QB will find he has a BUST, despite the Heisman headlines. Tebow would make a fine Single Wing Tailback triple threat, but no one uses the Wildcat as their only formation. He will be drafted as a RB.

Of course, you can find lots of height, weight, speed, combos as always, but without any production. Typical second day picks at QB, looking for a position as 3rd string QB. Occasionally you win too. Look at Brady, Cassel and Romo, but you can also look at the hundreds who didn't cut it.

Whether there are 2 or 12 teams seeking a QB there appears to be only one possible candidate, and he is NOT a sure thing at all, merely the best of a bad bunch. What do the other 9-11 teams do then?

 

[Frezo]

Again, I'd love for someone to show me where in the CBA it says anything about having to make even a token effort to reach a long-term deal with a franchised player. [As I've pointed out before, the franchise tags were an accommodation reached so that most players would be able to reach free agency after four years rather than six.]

SN: Time to make real changes to franchise tag - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com

"The other problem with the franchise tag is it often becomes a device for trading a player who otherwise would walk away without his previous team receiving any direct compensation for him. The CBA prohibits the franchise tag from being used solely as a precursor to a trade. But good luck proving a team has used the tag for that purpose."

 

[PatsFanSince74]

A relevant question regarding the future of Cassel is how many teams might bid on him, whether as a free agent or through trade?

The second part of that question is, of course, on how many teams would he be an upgrade?

A quick look at the 31 other teams, in descending order of QB rating through 12 games:

Dallas - Romo
San Diego - Rivers
Arizona - Warner
New Orleans - Brees
Miami - Pennington
Tampa Bay - Garcia
New York Giants - Manning
Atlanta - Ryan
Green Bay - Rodgers
Houston - Schaub
New York Jets - Favre
Washington - Campbell
Denver - Cutler
(New England - Cassel)
Indianapolis - Manning
Buffalo - Edwards
Philadelphia - McNabb
Chicago - Orton
Jacksonville - Garrard
Baltimore - Flacco
Tennessee - Collins/Young
Carolina - Delhomme
Pittsburgh - Roethlisberger
Kansas City - Thigpen/Huard
Minnesota - Frerotte/Jackson
San Francisco - O'Sullivan/Smith/Hill
Oakland - Russell
Cincinnati - Fitzpatrick/Palmer
St Louis - Bulger
Cleveland - Anderson/Quinn
Seattle - Hasselbeck
Detroit - Culpepper/Kitna/Orlovsky

Teams in bold = might bid on Cassel.

Excluded:
Oakland - while a clear upgrade, they probably financially cannot quit on Russell yet.
Baltimore - Flacco looks like a good developing QB
Cincinnati - obviously an injury issue to Palmer

Questions:
Philadelphia - too soon to move on?
Buffalo - expensive for a limited upgrade over Edwards
Miami - good season from Pennington, but aging and risky
New York Jets - does Favre retire? would Mangini want ex-Pat Cassel?
Tampa Bay - time to bring in the future?

That yields 12-14 teams that might be interested, based on the numbers and the context.

I think we can take all of the AFC teams (and especially the AFC East) off the board, as there is no way the Pats would strengthen a conference or divisional opponent. I see it as virtually 100% that Piolichick will tag him and then try to get the most they can for him in a trade with an NFC team. The problem, of course, is that any trading partners will know that we more or less have to trade him to clear cap space, so they might not get as much as we think.

That said, a lot of this comes down to whether a team is ready to "give up" on a QB either who has delivered for them in the past or one on whom they have bet a lot for the future, but who doesn't seem to be working out.

Using your helpful list, and sadly for Matt, Detroit is probably a very likely partner. Also, Hasselbeck hasn't been at full strength for a while, so Seattle is also way up there and a better destination for him, with an intelligent ownership and loyal fans. The Rams, Niners and Vikings would also be likely places.

However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think the Eagles might be ready to move into the post-McNabb era. And, that would be a good move for Matt as the Laurie's are classy owners and Andy Reid is a very good coach. Also, I think the Redskins have to know that Campbell isn't a big time QB. Finally, Da Bears might be ready to move past the Orton/Grossman era (error?) with a guy who has proven himself in the cold weather.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Unless he leads the Pats to the Super Bowl, I still think he stays here. The Pats offer him above average QB money with the knowledge that they are set at QB for the next 10 years. He knows that there isn't another team he can go to and be as successful in year one (and probably not year 2 or 3 for that matter) as he has been with the Pats because he knows the system here and is surrounded by talent.

Let's ask the question another way. How many teams would Cassel sign with? Unless his plan is to cash in on one contract and become just another "he had a good year as a backup qb on a talented team", he needs to look for - 1) Stability in the organization (management), 2) A solid OL, and 3) Quality receivers to whom to throw the ball. Which of the above teams that might be interested can offer him that?

I disagree. This is his time. Playing for less than he is worth for the Pats, with the possibility of a career-ending or career-limiting injury everytime he sets foot on the field, just doesn't make sense. Yes, he should prefer a team with good management and a commitment to win, but he has to take care of himself economically.

He has no idea whether he will get the chance again; he has to take it now and let the future play itself out as it may. He cannot control the future. He can control the contract he gets now.

 

[DW Toys]

I'm just going to throw this out cause it popped into my mind. KC is changing GM's and possibly coaches. Since the rumors of Pioli is looking to move on are floating around, and some have also mentioned McD and and Cassel as a package deal....and that Tony G wants to go to a contender...

any possibility of sending those three for Tony and some picks (2nd this year, 1st next year?)

Although long in the tooth, I say Gonzales is certainly an upgrade to our TE situation if he signs for at least two more years. I think you will see DeVree get a shot to unseat Thomas who has not worked out well. If we could glue hands like a Welker on Watson it would be good. I do not know if they keep this stat, but in the last three years I will say Watson has the most tipped balls that have resulted in an INT of any receiver in the NFL. Now combine them with drops. I bet two or three of Cassels' picks and Bradys' last year were Watson tips.

I say this. K.C. has a nice young playmaking CB in Flowers who has 65 tackles and two INTs or three year veteran Safety Jarred Page with 80!!! tackles and 4 INTs who is 6' and 225lbs. Take one of them plus Gonzales and their number 2 pick (a top fifty player no doubt) for Cassel and McD.

Now lets swap Maroney and our #3 pick to the Eagles because they will trade McNabb to the Bears for picks to start Kolb in 2009, for CB Lito Sheppard and MLB Stewart Bradley. That should be about right.

Maroney is expendable and Westbrook is a good one two punch with Maroney in Philly. They need another bigger back to feature.

Sheppard is less money to resign this year because he was not a starter.

All this builds youth and depth to our DB and LB core with more talent.It brings a great Vet for another Super Bowl run in Gonzales and BB likes Vets. Plus we get a decent draft pick. Morris and Jordan plus "the Law Firm" are playing RB the way BB wants. Now add Faulk. Maroney is not a Pats style RB.

Our LB core with Mayo and Bradley in the middle and Guyton going in or out would be set for years. Wilhite can develop and Hobbs can play the slot so our CBs are upgraded. Page is a big playmaking Safety who can tackle an upgrade of tremendous proportions over Sanders. If Harrison comes back he can spot up with Tank.

Just a thought.

DW Toys

 

[vandergraafgenerator]

As I said in previous posts, I think SF is the best landing spot. Chicago and Min are close seconds

I don't know. Who gets the first pick on the draft this year?? Lions is that it;
There are 3 exceptional quaterbacks on offer this year, Tebow,McCoy and Bradford, don't know that anyone with an early pick would want to pay megabucks and trade for Cassel when they could take Bradford who is an exceptional athlete; Rushing,Throwing,Converting 4th downs by going over the top of the pile-he does it all.

Oops he's only a sophomore, didn't know that, maybe not on the draft at all then.

 

[fair catch fryar]

You might be right. At the point of the competition he would be unsigned and there are plenty of unsigned players in a team's camp. Let's say that Cassel doesn't want to go to a team like the Lions or the Seahawks where there is a chance that he fades into obscurity like other good players have. Does he have a choice? Ideally the Pats tag & trade Cassel before the draft. The excuse for tagging him, the unknown condition of Brady's knee, kind of falls apart if the trade takes place shortly after the tag. Cassel's agent could easily put up a stink and Goodell would likely side against the Pats and nullify an early trade. At what point could it be determined that Brady's knee is definately good to go? I would say in pre-season games. So what happens to Cassel?

They don't want to outright release him and risk that he ends up in the AFCE. Maybe the Pats could do an early tag & trade providing the team is acceptable to Cassel. Maybe Dallas? Is Jones fed up with Romo? Philly? Tampa? Would the PA/Goodell accept a quick pre draft tag & trade if Cassel and his agent were OK with it?

Another and perhaps likely scenario is the Pats tag early and trade only when a positive determination is made on Brady's knee. The trade would be for picks in next year's draft or maybe a player(s). This would probably lessen his value a bit. At this point maybe they just let him compete for his job if he wants to.

OTOH I could have Cassel pegged all wrong and he is all about the money and would play for a losing team for major $$$. It's going to be a very interesting off season and even moreso if the Pats go beyond the Bills game.

The reason a team would be willing to trade for Cassel is to no longer be a losing team. With the exception of Detroit, I think a lot of teams vying for a legit QB could turn things around with the addition of Cassel and say a new coach(McDaniels). Teams like Arizona and SF are realistically a Qb away from being good teams.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know. Who gets the first pick on the draft this year?? Lions is that it;
There are 3 exceptional quaterbacks on offer this year, Tebow,McCoy and Bradford, don't know that anyone with an early pick would want to pay megabucks and trade for Cassel when they could take Bradford who is an exceptional athlete; Rushing,Throwing,Converting 4th downs by going over the top of the pile-he does it all.

1.) Underclassmen aren't guaranteed to come out.

2.) Tebow is not expected to be a particularly high pick, because he's not regarded as a great pro prospect.

3.) Cassel is currently showing that he can get the job done in the NFL. Bradford is a few days away from showing that he's not good enough to beat Florida.

 

[vandergraafgenerator]

1.)
2.) Tebow is not expected to be a particularly high pick, because he's not regarded as a great pro prospect.

3.) /QUOTE]


We shall see when he gets the draft projection that he's asked for.

I'm looking forward to the Sooner-Gators game though, better than some of the NFL crap that gets churned out on my TV of late. Bears-Packers, what a bore.

 

[DW Toys]

Along with looking at what teams might trade for Cassel, it is worthwhile to look at the college QB alternatives.

The NCAA simply is barren this year. There is simply only one possible alternative.

There is only one QB that is available and who is coming out.
Matthew Souffer 6-3 237 4.8 Georgia
And he is still only a Junior. No matter; in an ordinary year he might be the 4th or 5th QB taken. Using a First Rounder on him is potentially wasting it too.

The other prominent QBs in college ball are underclassmen as well.

Colt MCoy U T a sophomore
and
Sam Bradford 6-4 218 4.75 from Oklahoma. He is the genuine article, but is not coming out and is only a Junior too. He would merit a first round pick in 2010 or 2011.

The only other is Tim Tebow of Florida. Tebow is NOT an NFL QB. He simply can't throw that well, but is a good runner. Someone drafting him as an NFL QB will find he has a BUST, despite the Heisman headlines. Tebow would make a fine Single Wing Tailback triple threat, but no one uses the Wildcat as their only formation. He will be drafted as a RB.

Of course, you can find lots of height, weight, speed, combos as always, but without any production. Typical second day picks at QB, looking for a position as 3rd string QB. Occasionally you win too. Look at Brady, Cassel and Romo, but you can also look at the hundreds who didn't cut it.

Whether there are 2 or 12 teams seeking a QB there appears to be only one possible candidate, and he is NOT a sure thing at all, merely the best of a bad bunch. What do the other 9-11 teams do then?

You are right about the QB situation. Most take a few years unlike exceptions Ryan and Flacko. Cassel is ready and close to 4,000 yards passing with a very limited play selection the first few games.
A soph will not come out. Tebow is not a QB. Bradford has said he is staying.

Here is an interesting idea. A "mega" trade with the Vikes. Childress is on thin ice. Peterson and their number one for Cassel, Maroney and McD. They still have Chester Taylor to go with Maroney (U of Minn.), a very decent "O" line and some wide receivers like Berrian , Rice and Wade and a decent TE. The Vikes might be a QB from contenders for years.

Does Peterson help the Pats? I do not know but it would be fun.

If the first rounder pick does fly then how about CB Winfield and a #2 this year?

Just another thought.
DW Toys

 

[Deus Irae]

1.)
2.) Tebow is not expected to be a particularly high pick, because he's not regarded as a great pro prospect.

3.)

We shall see when he gets the draft projection that he's asked for.

I'm looking forward to the Sooner-Gators game though, better than some of the NFL crap that gets churned out on my TV of late. Bears-Packers, what a bore.

Well, since we don't have that yet:

Most NFL analysts do not believe Tebow will be a high pick in the draft, regardless of when he comes out, because he's not considered a prototypical NFL passer. ESPN's Todd McShay, director of college football scouting for Scouts Inc., said recently that he doesn't believe Tebow will be drafted in either the first or second round if he leaves Florida.

ESPN - Tim Tebow of Florida Gators to have draft value projected

Of course, there are those who disagree:

Tebow, however, is a rare breed at quarterback and you can almost be sure that some NFL team will put away any fears and snatch him up in the first round.

Tim Tebow Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect

 

[ctpatsfan77]

SN: Time to make real changes to franchise tag - NFL- nbcsports.msnbc.com

"The other problem with the franchise tag is it often becomes a device for trading a player who otherwise would walk away without his previous team receiving any direct compensation for him. The CBA prohibits the franchise tag from being used solely as a precursor to a trade. But good luck proving a team has used the tag for that purpose."

Please note that's not what I asked for:

Again, I'd love for someone to show me where in the CBA it says anything about having to make even a token effort to reach a long-term deal with a franchised player.

A media report saying "The CBA says . . ." doesn't cut it, in my book, because they often claim things which are either oversimplifications or outright incorrect.

Also, I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that I have read the entire section governing the use of the franchise tag (and several other sections), and I can find no reference to such a provision.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Anyone who drafts Tebow as a QB is just adding another notch to the Heisman jinx. He will bust as a NFL QB, where first, last and always, the QB must be able to throw the ball.

 

[Frezo]

Please note that's not what I asked for:



A media report saying "The CBA says . . ." doesn't cut it, in my book, because they often claim things which are either oversimplifications or outright incorrect.

Also, I'm not saying you're wrong, merely that I have read the entire section governing the use of the franchise tag (and several other sections), and I can find no reference to such a provision.

This is close to what we're looking for, but may not be pertinant to trades.
Article XIV Section 8:

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

The reason a team would be willing to trade for Cassel is to no longer be a losing team. With the exception of Detroit, I think a lot of teams vying for a legit QB could turn things around with the addition of Cassel and say a new coach(McDaniels). Teams like Arizona and SF are realistically a Qb away from being good teams.

Just a question, why are some fans so interested in getting rid of (trading) McDaniels? Who is going to replace him? Weiss?

 

[fair catch fryar]

Just a question, why are some fans so interested in getting rid of (trading) McDaniels? Who is going to replace him? Weiss?

Who said anything about getting rid of McDaniels? The guy orchestrated one of the most potent offenses ever seen in 2007, has helped Cassel handle the offense very efficiently, is a Belichick disciple, and is in his early 30s. Let's just say that there will be a few teams interested in him and the possibility of Cassel is boubly-enticing. I don't think he'll be around next year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Daily News suggests the sign-and-trade would be legit. Take it with a grain of salt, of course.

Free Agents: Bill Belichick is too smart to just let Cassel walk away as a free agent and get nothing in return. Cassel would be the hottest unrestricted free agent, but I think Belichick will use $14.6 million in cap space (still leaving the Pats $6 million under at the start of free agency) and put the franchise tag on Cassel. Then he will try to do a sign-and-trade. Cassel will find a team willing to pay him what he wants and Belichick will then work out a trade to get a first-round pick.

The NFL confirmed last week that such a move is completely within the rules. Belichick may also find a way to keep Cassel as insurance in case Tom Brady, who had knee surgery and subsequent problems with an infection, is not ready for the start of the season. Anybody who thinks Belichick will allow Cassel to leave as an unrestricted free agent and sign with the Jets has underestimated his hatred for the Jets. Besides, after investing four years in Cassel, who's on the verge of throwing for 4,000 yards, it would be bad business to just let him leave.

 

[Krugman]

Ctpatsfan77 ,I think your post is on the mark,as there are a handful of top tier QBs in the league,cant see BB letting one go without decent compensation.Lots of teams have good ,but aging QB'S there are many teams who would give good draft picks for a sure-fire player,rather than gamble in the draft.