How many teams would bid on Cassel

[363839]

Wake up guys. Some team will take him next year, you can bet the farm on that. He has done a solid job so far this year. Dont even bring up "Look at the weapons he has". What has Fitzpatrick done with Houshmensadah and Ocho Cinco? There are other QB's out there that are doing worse with just as much talent around them. Also, did anyone expect Cassel to perform this well considering not starting? Coaches know more than we do and they know hidden talent. He was drafted for a reason. He will improve over the years as he has done since the beginning of this year.

You're hitting it right in the nose there, dude.
Good post.
I'm fairly certain they'll get a #1

 

[363839]

Why are so many of you guys saying the Vikings?
That might be the best place for Matt, sure but I'd rather
see the Pats get better value in whats out there.
Like KC and Detroit.
Doesn't Detroit have something like 3 #1 picks at
WR courtesy of Matt Millen GM extraordinaire?!
MC could turn that team around.

 

[Urgent]

Why are so many of you guys saying the Vikings?
That might be the best place for Matt, sure but I'd rather
see the Pats get better value in whats out there.
Like KC and Detroit.
Doesn't Detroit have something like 3 #1 picks at
WR courtesy of Matt Millen GM extraordinaire?!
MC could turn that team around.

Yes, but only if you count players currently with Dallas or out of football.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Unless he leads the Pats to the Super Bowl, I still think he stays here. The Pats offer him above average QB money with the knowledge that they are set at QB for the next 10 years. He knows that there isn't another team he can go to and be as successful in year one (and probably not year 2 or 3 for that matter) as he has been with the Pats because he knows the system here and is surrounded by talent.

Let's ask the question another way. How many teams would Cassel sign with? Unless his plan is to cash in on one contract and become just another "he had a good year as a backup qb on a talented team", he needs to look for - 1) Stability in the organization (management), 2) A solid OL, and 3) Quality receivers to whom to throw the ball. Which of the above teams that might be interested can offer him that?

As much as I would like to see Cassel be our Steve Young there's no way he stays here. Cassel deserves a chance to be a starting Qb and the $$$ that goes along with it. There's alot of intangibles coming into play and much more that will be clear in a few weeks once the PO are under way. I'm hoping there is an amicable deal for both parties where Cassel goes to a good organization in the NFC and the Pats can get something in exchange. No matter what, Cassel has been a good "soldier" for the Pats and deserves a starting job with the financial security.

 

[Frezo]

As much as I would like to see Cassel be our Steve Young there's no way he stays here. Cassel deserves a chance to be a starting Qb and the $$$ that goes along with it. There's alot of intangibles coming into play and much more that will be clear in a few weeks once the PO are under way. I'm hoping there is an amicable deal for both parties where Cassel goes to a good organization in the NFC and the Pats can get something in exchange. No matter what, Cassel has been a good "soldier" for the Pats and deserves a starting job with the financial security.

This made me think. If Cassel has earned the right to be a starting QB, does he also deserve to compete directly with Brady for the Pat's starting job? Does BB see Brady as the de facto comeback kid or would he take a serious approach towards having a competition for the position? Hasn't he always said that starting jobs aren't written stone? I'm not saying that Cassel would necessarily beat out Brady, but suppose Cassel told BB that the only place he wants to QB is New England and that he wants to compete for the job? BB has always showed loyalty to good players. What would he do?

 

[IcyPatriot]

The thought of McDaniels coaching Cassel in a Jets uniform makes me throw up in my mouth.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Unless he leads the Pats to the Super Bowl, I still think he stays here. The Pats offer him above average QB money with the knowledge that they are set at QB for the next 10 years. He knows that there isn't another team he can go to and be as successful in year one (and probably not year 2 or 3 for that matter) as he has been with the Pats because he knows the system here and is surrounded by talent.

Let's ask the question another way. How many teams would Cassel sign with? Unless his plan is to cash in on one contract and become just another "he had a good year as a backup qb on a talented team", he needs to look for - 1) Stability in the organization (management), 2) A solid OL, and 3) Quality receivers to whom to throw the ball. Which of the above teams that might be interested can offer him that?

That's alot of $$$ tied up in a position to ride the pine while Brady finishes out his career. I don't think the pats system, where we have better quality "subs" (vs the Colts model for example), could survive having that much cap in a 1 player position.

Lets say "above average" is 8 - 10M a year. That's an expensive clip board holder.

 

[363839]

The thought of McDaniels coaching Cassel in a Jets uniform makes me throw up in my mouth.

I know. God please let it be KC.

 

[DocE]

My current thought is that the list of potential landing spots for Cassel is shrinking, not expanding.

I no longer think of KC as a likely destination due to Thigpen's play in the last 1/3rd of the season.

I think Singletary getting the head coaching job on a permanent basis takes the 49ers out of the running. I think Singletary will want to build his defense first, and won't give up a first rounder (or a large chunk of his cap space) on a quarterback.

Minnesota has switched back to Tavaris Jackson for Gus Frerotte. If Jackson plays well against the Giants and in the playoffs, I can't see Minnesota being an option for Cassel.

I still believe Tampa is the best fit for a potential trade. Jeff Garcia can't make it through a full season and Jon Gruden seems to have soured on him over the past year. Getting a potential franchise QB for a draft pick in the 20's is a no brainer.

I think Detroit is the next most likely trade partner. They would trade the Patriots Dallas's pick and lock up a very good QB without having the expense/risk of using their no.1 overall pick on a QB.

 

[363839]

My current thought is that the list of potential landing spots for Cassel is shrinking, not expanding.

I no longer think of KC as a likely destination due to Thigpen's play in the last 1/3rd of the season.

I think Cassels' play dwarfs Thigpens. KC might want to think a little harder on this.

I think Singletary getting the head coaching job on a permanent basis takes the 49ers out of the running. I think Singletary will want to build his defense first, and won't give up a first rounder (or a large chunk of his cap space) on a quarterback.

Minnesota has switched back to Tavaris Jackson for Gus Frerotte. If Jackson plays well against the Giants and in the playoffs, I can't see Minnesota being an option for Cassel.

Agreed on both counts here.

I still believe Tampa is the best fit for a potential trade. Jeff Garcia can't make it through a full season and Jon Gruden seems to have soured on him over the past year. Getting a potential franchise QB for a draft pick in the 20's is a no brainer.

I think Detroit is the next most likely trade partner. They would trade the Patriots Dallas's pick and lock up a very good QB without having the expense/risk of using their no.1 overall pick on a QB.

Good point on Tampa but if we deal with Detroit I'd like to see the Pats get Detroits' number one. Matts' worth it.

 

[363839]

Yes, but only if you count players currently with Dallas or out of football.

Ok that's true but I still think Matt can turn that team around.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Good point on Tampa but if we deal with Detroit I'd like to see the Pats get Detroits' number one. Matts' worth it.

He may well be worth it, but the Pats would avoid that #1 overall pick like the plague. Besides--I'd say any first-round pick is darn good value for an original 7th-round pick. . . .

Ok that's true but I still think Matt can turn that team around.

If Cassel could do that in his first contract, he'd be one of the top 5 QBs of all time.

 

[jmt57]

A relevant question regarding the future of Cassel is how many teams might bid on him, whether as a free agent or through trade?

The second part of that question is, of course, on how many teams would he be an upgrade?

A quick look at the 31 other teams, in descending order of QB rating through 12 games:

Dallas - Romo
San Diego - Rivers
Arizona - Warner
New Orleans - Brees
Miami - Pennington
Tampa Bay - Garcia
New York Giants - Manning
Atlanta - Ryan
Green Bay - Rodgers
Houston - Schaub
New York Jets - Favre
Washington - Campbell
Denver - Cutler
(New England - Cassel)
Indianapolis - Manning
Buffalo - Edwards
Philadelphia - McNabb
Chicago - Orton
Jacksonville - Garrard
Baltimore - Flacco
Tennessee - Collins/Young
Carolina - Delhomme
Pittsburgh - Roethlisberger
Kansas City - Thigpen/Huard
Minnesota - Frerotte/Jackson
San Francisco - O'Sullivan/Smith/Hill
Oakland - Russell
Cincinnati - Fitzpatrick/Palmer
St Louis - Bulger
Cleveland - Anderson/Quinn
Seattle - Hasselbeck
Detroit - Culpepper/Kitna/Orlovsky

Teams in bold = might bid on Cassel.

Excluded:
Oakland - while a clear upgrade, they probably financially cannot quit on Russell yet.
Baltimore - Flacco looks like a good developing QB
Cincinnati - obviously an injury issue to Palmer

Questions:
Philadelphia - too soon to move on?
Buffalo - expensive for a limited upgrade over Edwards
Miami - good season from Pennington, but aging and risky
New York Jets - does Favre retire? would Mangini want ex-Pat Cassel?
Tampa Bay - time to bring in the future?

That yields 12-14 teams that might be interested, based on the numbers and the context.

Of course, the supply side of the equation is relevant as well.

How many free agent QB's will there be to supply these 10-14 teams?

Kurt Warner
Matt Cassel
Kyle Orton
Jeff Garcia
David Garrard
Kerry Collins
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller
Charlie Batch
JP Losman
Patrick Ramsey
Luke McCown

Of course, if Warner or Garrard, for example, switch teams, that just moves the opening somewhere else. But not a lot of viable starters on that list. Cassel could well be the most valued QB in play.

These two comments bring out the two main factors - teams current QB's, and who will be available. Other factors are who is available in the draft, who is available on your bench, your cap position, and other areas of need.

From the original list, I'd remove Favre because Favre would rather return than be replaced. Yes, he'll play the do-you-love-me dance, but I don't hink Jets management will cut him after just one season - that would be admitting they made a bad move. And Favre won't quit after one season, because that would be admitting Ted Thompson and the Packers were right. Besides, after last season, I don't think they can afford too many big contracts.

The lists that included both of these names are a bit out of date; Garrard signed a big contract last spring so he's not a free agent and is not going anywhwere.

Carolina probably sees some more value in Delhomme, I seriously doubt they will go after Cassel.

Tennessee is a possibility but I doubt they're willing to throw in the towel on Young yet.

Kansas City has several other pressing needs other than upgrading from Thigpen, who had a decent year.

As mentioned above, Singletary will focus on defense rather than spending money on yet another QB.

Cleveland also has too much invested in QB, they're going to see what Quinn can do. They had their chance to trade Anderson a year ago and blew it.

If Warner leaves Arizona, the Cardinals would most likely give Leinart one more shot.

Buffalo has other needs than Edwards, who was okay before being injured.


That leaves Miami, Tampa Bay, Chicago, Minnesota, St Louis, Seattle and Detroit.

St. Louis, Seattle and Detroit have so many problems that a QB won't help much. They may look at Cassel but it's a bad fit for both sides; one or the other will say no.

Miami is a team with a vet QB that led them to 10-wins, and a couple of new guys. A possibility for Parcells, but I think he focuses on defense and both lines once again.

Orton is a free agent, but where is he going to go? Best bet for both him and the Bears is to re-sign, and for Chicago to work on their pass defense.

Minnesota could be a player; remember how hot they were for Favre?

Gruden loves quarterbacks, but he also loves competition; will Cassel want to go where he is not a clear-cut number one? On the other hand Tampa Bay is supposed to be way under the cap next year, and Florida has no state income tax as an extra incentive to the nice weather.



So to me the bottom line is that while there are other possibilities, the most likely destination for Cassel next year is either Minnesota or Tampa Bay.

 

[fair catch fryar]

This made me think. If Cassel has earned the right to be a starting QB, does he also deserve to compete directly with Brady for the Pat's starting job? Does BB see Brady as the de facto comeback kid or would he take a serious approach towards having a competition for the position? Hasn't he always said that starting jobs aren't written stone? I'm not saying that Cassel would necessarily beat out Brady, but suppose Cassel told BB that the only place he wants to QB is New England and that he wants to compete for the job? BB has always showed loyalty to good players. What would he do?

Only if Cassel would take a lot less to compete with Tom Brady. Valid point, but never going to happen, especially for the money Cassel can get elsewhere.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

I'm just going to throw this out cause it popped into my mind. KC is changing GM's and possibly coaches. Since the rumors of Pioli is looking to move on are floating around, and some have also mentioned McD and and Cassel as a package deal....and that Tony G wants to go to a contender...

any possibility of sending those three for Tony and some picks (2nd this year, 1st next year?)

 

[PatriotsInGA]

i say keep cassel.

 

[Frezo]

Only if Cassel would take a lot less to compete with Tom Brady. Valid point, but never going to happen, especially for the money Cassel can get elsewhere.

You might be right. At the point of the competition he would be unsigned and there are plenty of unsigned players in a team's camp. Let's say that Cassel doesn't want to go to a team like the Lions or the Seahawks where there is a chance that he fades into obscurity like other good players have. Does he have a choice? Ideally the Pats tag & trade Cassel before the draft. The excuse for tagging him, the unknown condition of Brady's knee, kind of falls apart if the trade takes place shortly after the tag. Cassel's agent could easily put up a stink and Goodell would likely side against the Pats and nullify an early trade. At what point could it be determined that Brady's knee is definately good to go? I would say in pre-season games. So what happens to Cassel?

They don't want to outright release him and risk that he ends up in the AFCE. Maybe the Pats could do an early tag & trade providing the team is acceptable to Cassel. Maybe Dallas? Is Jones fed up with Romo? Philly? Tampa? Would the PA/Goodell accept a quick pre draft tag & trade if Cassel and his agent were OK with it?

Another and perhaps likely scenario is the Pats tag early and trade only when a positive determination is made on Brady's knee. The trade would be for picks in next year's draft or maybe a player(s). This would probably lessen his value a bit. At this point maybe they just let him compete for his job if he wants to.

OTOH I could have Cassel pegged all wrong and he is all about the money and would play for a losing team for major $$$. It's going to be a very interesting off season and even moreso if the Pats go beyond the Bills game.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You might be right. At the point of the competition he would be unsigned and there are plenty of unsigned players in a team's camp.

Just to be clear--there is no chance of an unsigned Cassel taking training camp snaps with the Patriots, or anyone else, in 2009.

 

[Frezo]

Just to be clear--there is no chance of an unsigned Cassel taking training camp snaps with the Patriots, or anyone else, in 2009.

So if Brady's knee isn't ready do you think they'd go with a signed Cassel or O'Connell?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Cassel's agent could easily put up a stink and Goodell would likely side against the Pats and nullify an early trade. At what point could it be determined that Brady's knee is definately good to go? I would say in pre-season games. So what happens to Cassel?

Again, I'd love for someone to show me where in the CBA it says anything about having to make even a token effort to reach a long-term deal with a franchised player. [As I've pointed out before, the franchise tags were an accommodation reached so that most players would be able to reach free agency after four years rather than six.]