Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Nov 30, 2009.
I think our coaching has been going downhill for a few years.
You surprise me; I'd think you would have a better clue. Yeah, the 2007 offense suffered from not having Weis. Yeah, going 11-5 without Brady last year was the result of poor coaching.
Do your credibility a favor and delete this thread before it's too late.
Maybe we should start a poll of how many wins with Pete Carroll...
Well yeah. Its hard to keep experienced coaches when every team in the NFL keeps signing ours. I think under the circumstances, BB has done pretty good. Sure, i'd like to see BB stop coaching up the D on the sidelines, and pay a little attention to the offense, but that doesnt mean that Dean is doing THAT bad a job. Would i prefer RAC to come back, honestly yeah.
As far as how many more wins??? The coaches werent the ones blowing coverages, missing tackles, and making poor decisions under center
There was less of that when Romeo was here, for whatever combination of reasons.
And the opening drives of games aren't nearly as successful, on average, as they were at times under other OCs.
one brady keep's throwing the ball deep when the guy's are covered and he is forceing the ball to welker like drew bledsoe started to do with coats so a new OC cant help that
and on D they have no talent they are going to have to wait untill next year to fix that
So why is that?
Zero. Please, BB, don't bring these retreads back. Nothing could better insure this team falls into mediocrity.
will let's see who was romeo's starting line up he's last year here
NT vince wilforK. DE Richard Seymour. DE Ty Warren.
RILB Tedy Bruschi. LILB Mike Vrabel LOLB Willie McGinest. ROLB Rosevelt Colvin.
LCB Ty Law. SS Rodney Harrison. FS Eugene Wilson. RCB Asante Samuel.
i think even i would look good coaching that line up
OK people are bashing the thread.... you really think we would have lost the Jets and Broncos games with competent playcalling? ZERO points in the 2nd half. Yeah Brady was not himself, but we were fine in the first halves of those games, and the other teams adjusted... we didn't. Those losses are on the coaching staff. And the Colts game I'm not even going to get into that one.
We have 2-3 more wins with Charlie and Romeo and alot better chance in January.
You're stepping into the same pile of nonsense as the OP. The problems with this team come down to injuries and inexperience/lack of leadership on defense -- NOT coaching, NOT play calling. This line of thinking shows how little you really understand the pro game.
Oh please... In 2001 we had a team with far less talent and they beat 3 straight elite teams when it mattered. BB has proven he can do more with less, when he had Weis/Crennel. He was close with McDaniels a couple times, this year we still don't know but it doesn't look good. The fact remains that aside from the Saints game, we were never overmatched on the field. We had 2nd half leads in all those losses and the other teams adjusted better as the game went. You talk about lack of leadership/experience well the guy who has looked the worst in most of our 2nd half collapses is #12. Are you saying he's our problem
The only loss where Brady might've been the tipping point was at New Jersey, and he was still finding his sea legs after a year off. The rest are on the defense. You're looking at this from the outside and extrapolating, where I'm willing to hazard a guess that BB knows what's needed in terms of coordinators. The offense has generally performed well this year, and Crennel would make NO difference with this bunch of defenders.
They all suffer from selective memory revisionist history disorder...
Remember how we came to win a home playoff game in the snow in 2001 as an 11-5 team? I do. Vividly. Couldn't buy a score in that game to save our souls until after a certain call reopened a slammed window. Proved to be a momentum shifter that carried into OT where we luckily won the toss. Remember the Kordell Stewart led Steelers... And we really biatch slapped the Rams on offense the next week...oh, wait, that was on defense until the 4th quarter collapse.
Remember the time Patten maintained control while unconscious... Charlie was such a genius!!!
People keep under-estimating how influential play-calling and scheme are in football. This isn't like the NBA or baseball where the personnel pretty much dictates who wins.
This team clearly has red zone issues on both sides of the ball, as well as predictability issues, all relating to why our 2nd half stats are so terrible.
Where's the option for "They'd probably have even more losses"?
As for the coaching going downhill theory, McDaniels was a far better offensive coordinator than Weis, in my opinion.
I agree. Give McDaniels and Pees the defensive personal that Crennel and Weis had and watch the Championships pile up.
Who would win? Superman or Han****?
No f'n way.
McDaniels was good at pre-game planning and ruthlessly using his best players to repeatedly beat the opposing defense with the same plays, over and over. He was as flawed as Mike Martz, and just as beatable in big games against smart D-coordinators.
Pees is not even in the same league as Weiss, McKid, or Crennel.
If McDaniels and Pees are the coordinators from 01-04, the Pats win zero Superbowls.
Last time I looked, Weiss and Crennel were not playing....I am not sure how many more wins this team would have...or even if suggesting MORE is the only way it could fall.
On the D side, the tackling was embarrassing as was some of the coverages blown...I don't think coaching would have made that much of a difference. On the other side, maybe there could have been some changes..but Brady was not throwing all that well and the line was not doing its job. So they go the short routes? A lot had to do with execution..not to what plays or defenses were called.
For those claiming different coordinators would command different results, I pose these questions: do any one of you know exactly what past coordinators did in comparison to present coordinators? Did you sit in the meeting rooms and planning rooms and bask in the warmth of the glow of those coordinators and realize they could out-plan anyone in the NFL using a mere deli platter for personnel?
I expect to you McDaniels was worse than Weis and you grumbled over his competency, even as the team broke every offensive record in the book in 2007. Even as McDaniels currently seems to be doing fairly well with a bunch of his own no-names in Denver.
Brady made two bad throws last night. Two bad throws was about all it took to bury the team in a shootout. Weis would not throw the ball for him, so I don't see how he would help last night. The defense has less experience than it did in previous years, and obviously you enjoyed a positive learning experience last night. Crennell does not play defensive back, and no receiver should ever be as open as one was on the 75 yard TD last night. There is no defensive scheme that can be called to correct that. That's called execution, offensive and defensive, and that is on the players.
The NFL has evolved since 2004. Check the rules, check the teams and check the players. If Romeo is such a defensive genius, explain Cleveland and that team's defense. If Weis is the Einstein of offenses, explain Notre Dame and that team's offense relative to the NCAA powerhouses. Or maybe it is wizardry and they magically become exponentially more intelligent when they return to the sideline with the Pats, and the 2003-2004 defensive personnel return in exactly the same condition they were in those years, and Corey Dillon returns as well, and Brady's knee injury and lost season dissolve into the mist and all is well once more in New England. Frankly, I just cannot understand this fascination with past coordinators when I suspect few know exactly what success is attributable to them, and what is attributable to personnel and the current organization.
I hardly doubt that. Although I will give you that they were the right men for the 01 Superbowl.
Disagree on the Denver game being on the defense. The Colts game wasn't entirely on the defense either. In the first 3 losses, the offense did next to nothing in the 2nd half (10 points total, 7 off a PR putting us on their 10 and 3 on a FG off an INT in their territory) and the D was out there far too long. Can't blame the D solely for that in any way. Definitely never said BB doesn't know what he needs in terms of coordinators, when you lose 5 coordinators in 5 offseasons you're taking a major hit. Same goes for player personnel also, but from the way we have lost games this year IMO proper adjustments aren't being made.
Then what the hell are you doing on a stupid fan messageboard? You should be hand-delivering your resume to Bob Kraft's office in Boston.
Alright dude we don't agree. No need for the sarcastic BS you keep showing.
I posted a poll and those in the distinct minority have been loud in their ciritcism for even considering the possibility that we had better coordinators in Weiss and Crennel than we have now.
We had McDaniels then. McDaniels was the best coordinator that we've had since Belichick himself (was Belichick our DC or asst. head coach? I always forget...)
McDaniels is not better than Weiss or Crennel. If McDaniels was OC from 01-4 we would have ZERO rings.
Weiss succeeded with much less talent at every single position group from 01-04. Crennel molded a unit that included a bunch of guys nobody else wanted, who ended up becoming legendary. He also won a ring with Troy Brown at corner and Ty Law out almost an entire year.
Stop being a stat whore drooling over 2007. You probably also think Mike Martz is the best coach ever after McKid.
So you think. Suffice to say, I may be a 'stat whore', but at least I'm not an idiot who's been beating the same dead horse for 4 years.
Yes, you are a stat whore, no different from whiny 04 Colts fans or 01 Rams fans who still insist they had the better team, and come up with a 1000 different what-if excuses.
Separate names with a comma.