How has your thinking changed?

[Peachhead]

At first I thought it was a pretty good TE class. Although I didn't want to take one, I was resigned to the idea that we probably would take one early. And I learned to live with that.

Now I think most people acknowledge it's a pretty bad TE draft. Most of the top ones are waaaaay over-rated.So I would be pretty unhappy if we took one.

Also, I started the draft season (Jan-May approx) bemoaning the fact that BB & co put an awful lot of stock in workout numbers over actual play and gametape. Now that I see most of my binkies put up good workout numbers I'm OK with emphasizing workout numbers.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Kelvin Benjamin sounds good at TE, but he's not bright. his wonderlic was a 7. He certainly won't fit in as a WR with the patriots

 

[patchick]

I started the draft season (Jan-May approx) bemoaning the fact that BB & co put an awful lot of stock in workout numbers over actual play and gametape. Now that I see most of my binkies put up good workout numbers I'm OK with emphasizing workout numbers.

LOL! Yeah, it's lovely when the "eyeball test" matches the off-field workouts. The question is what to do when that doesn't happen.

I'm kind of surprised that you think BB & co have a record of putting too much stock in workout numbers. Off the top of my head, Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham and Ron Brace are some examples of players who they drafted high despite poor measurables (for better or worse). And when they have gone for the total "workout warriors" -- Jamie Collins, Sebastian Vollmer, Chandler Jones -- it has often worked out well.

Of course, there are also the guys who were both productive on the field and tested well in shorts yet still flopped, like Laurence Maroney and Chad Jackson. And Darius Butler was a big favorite of this draft board. It's not anything close to an exact science, eh?

 

[Luxusdk]

We have to remmeber every single time Patriots draft they need atleast 1 "redshirt" year - It can be on IR or ST. And if ppl have to "redshirt" anyway, they might aswell go with the numbers. I think you have to go with numbers, aslong they also make sure there are stuff to back it up.

 

[captain stone]

At first I thought it was a pretty good TE class. Although I didn't want to take one, I was resigned to the idea that we probably would take one early. And I learned to live with that.

Now I think most people acknowledge it's a pretty bad TE draft. Most of the top ones are waaaaay over-rated.So I would be pretty unhappy if we took one...

We need a TE, badly. I will be shocked & extremely pissed if Bill doesn't draft one at all, even in the late rounds.

 

[patchick]

We need a TE, badly. I will be shocked & extremely pissed if Bill doesn't draft one at all, even in the late rounds.

Now there's the trouble. We DO need a tight end badly, but nobody available in the late rounds of a weak TE draft can reasonably be considered as filling that need. They'd just be camp competition for D.J. Williams & Hooman.

Meanwhile the guys who should available in rounds 1-3 are underwhelming and likely to be majorly overdrafted. Do you want a TE enough to applaud the selection of a 4th-round talent at #62, with much better prospects on the board at other positions?

 

[Luxusdk]

Now there's the trouble. We DO need a tight end badly, but nobody available in the late rounds of a weak TE draft can reasonably be considered as filling that need. They'd just be camp competition for D.J. Williams & Hooman.

Meanwhile the guys who should available in rounds 1-3 are underwhelming and likely to be majorly overdrafted. Do you want a TE enough to applaud the selection of a 4th-round talent at #62, with much better prospects on the board at other positions?

WHO is there says they are horible ? Cause i hope its no CBS since there rankings are hopeless.

 

[Peachhead]

We need a TE, badly. I will be shocked & extremely pissed if Bill doesn't draft one at all, even in the late rounds.

If we take a guy who's not significantly better than the backups we have on the roster it doesn't solve the problem. We'll still need one next year. Plus we could potentially be one guy thinner at a different position. If we passed up a guy that could have been a contributor to fill the "need" at TE instead.

I hope we can get a couple UDFAs to try at the position. And maybe a vet after a team cuts a vet TE to open a spot for the TE they just drafted.

Personally, I think our "need" at TE is a little overblown. There's more than one way to win. Sure, Gronk and Hernandez impacted the game when they were in there. But they're not just any TEs. Gronk's likely a HOFer. Should he not play a full season again almost anyone, rookie or vet, is going to be quite a step down from him. Both Gronk and Aperp not being available last year was a bit of a surprise. Now the coaching staff and Brady has had more time to adjust, and the WR corp should be much better with a year under their belts.

 

[VrabelJr]

Latest thought in my head: I don't think I want a DT or TE until round 4 at the earliest. I'm happy with an OG, LB, WR (depending on who's on the board at WR still) or if other positions being overdrafted cause one of the top DE or Safety to be available to us.

 

[captain stone]

Now there's the trouble. We DO need a tight end badly, but nobody available in the late rounds of a weak TE draft can reasonably be considered as filling that need. They'd just be camp competition for D.J. Williams & Hooman.

Meanwhile the guys who should available in rounds 1-3 are underwhelming and likely to be majorly overdrafted. Do you want a TE enough to applaud the selection of a 4th-round talent at #62, with much better prospects on the board at other positions?

If by a 4th-round talent you mean somebody like CJF, then I agree that I would not at all consider him at 62, or maybe even at 93 for that matter. If however you mean somebody like ASJ or Amaro at 62, then yes I would strongly consider them there (Nicklas OTOH would not be a consideration until 93).

 

[patchick]

If by a 4th-round talent you mean somebody like CJF, then I agree that I would not at all consider him at 62, or maybe even at 93 for that matter. If however you mean somebody like ASJ or Amaro at 62, then yes I would strongly consider them there (Nicklas OTOH would not be a consideration until 93).

Unfortunately, my strong suspicion is that CJF will, indeed, be the top TE available at #62 -- unless the rumors about ASJ having a bad attitude and rejecting coaching are accurate, or Niklas's concussion history is as bad as some have speculated. In which case they'd be no bargains at 62 either.

Since this is the evolving-thinking thread, I'll toss in that I'm starting to warm to the idea of Kelvin Benjamin as a joker TE. I've been a particularly vocal skeptic on him as a WR, but maybe the right role could take advantage of his strengths. Arguing against that:

- Poor strength for the position
- If the transition were so easy, similar prospects like Mike Williams would have made it rather than flaming out
- Wonderlic score of 7 + Patriots offense??

 

[Luxusdk]

I think Jace Amaro at 62 could be fine value and the rute Patriots goes, with Lee or Robinson at 29. Have to admit the Smith Signing + the Draft needs / Value in the draft, makes me even more convinced Patriots picks 7-8 Off. Players.

 

[varjao]

I understand that theoretically you don't draft by need but the situation at TE is critical, if they do not address this need in the first 2 rounds I'll be really pissed, reach or not, I don't care.

 

[Ivan]

I don't know, PC I guess (and the key word here is "guess") a lot will depend on how the Pats' personnel people rate the TE's vs the WR's in this draft. I'm no expert, but there are a lot of people who seem to think there are at least 5 really good ones, and one of them should be available when the Pats pick in the first 2-3 rounds.

Then again Ivan might be right and Josh's influence might be to get away from 2 TE's and use a big WR (ie Harrison) instead of the "flex TE" (thanks Grid) to replace the Hernandez role in the offense. There is a case to be made that its a lot easier to find a Harrison/Benjamin type WR than it is to find a Hernandez type TE, yet given the right talent, they could perform similar tasks

The fact is that I have no clue. The FO might love the TE's or hate them. Josh might want to go more to 3 WR's over 2 TE's, or he may not. I'd love to say that the way the Pats draft next week will give us some answers to those questions, but it really won't. Who they want and and who is there are sometimes 2 different things. All I guess we are going to get are
"indications" of their strategy

Just to be clear Ken, i think the Patriots would rather have a TE to replace Hernandez in a move TE role, but if they don't have the right option to fill that role may be looking at Lafell or a guy like Robinson to play it while using Vereen to replace other aspects of the Hernandez role. Personally i want them to take ASJ because the upside is so good and I think that he could step right in and contribute immediately. If he is there at #29 that would almost certainly be my pick at that spot.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think we might be overvaluing how much the Patriots value the TE position. Did we go to a 2 TE offense because we happened to land two great TEs on the cheap, or did we become a 2 TE offense because BB is secretly obsessed with TEs?

Another thing to think about is that the rest of the NFL has been grabbing up TEs after seeing our success, that means overdrafting at the position which will cause a surplus at other positions. Maybe we should be innovating on offense instead of chasing after our 2 TE dream?

 

[SalemPats]

I think we might be overvaluing how much the Patriots value the TE position. Did we go to a 2 TE offense because we happened to land two great TEs on the cheap, or did we become a 2 TE offense because BB is secretly obsessed with TEs?

Another thing to think about is that the rest of the NFL has been grabbing up TEs after seeing our success, that means overdrafting at the position which will cause a surplus at other positions. Maybe we should be innovating on offense instead of chasing after our 2 TE dream?

Agreed, we went 2-TE offense because we had Hernandez/Gronk. Those guys rarely come around, i think BB might address outside WR or an O-Lineman in this draft because it's so deep there.

 

[mgteich]

We seem to be fine with Hooman starting when Gronk isn't able to play.

 

[captain stone]

I think we might be overvaluing how much the Patriots value the TE position. Did we go to a 2 TE offense because we happened to land two great TEs on the cheap, or did we become a 2 TE offense because BB is secretly obsessed with TEs?

Methinks the latter, especially when the drafting of 2 TEs in the first round within a 3-year span is taken into consideration.

 

[joepatsfan]

We seem to be fine with Hooman starting when Gronk isn't able to play.

If you define "fine" as inept in the red zone and missing a key mismatch to open up everyone else, then sure, we're 'fine'. The Pats need either a WR with size to create a mismatch or a TE who can do the same or a flex TE type with size and speed. Even if it is just Mark Harrison moving to TE then that's fine. Something other than Hooman as our #1 TE

 

[patfanken]

I think we might be overvaluing how much the Patriots value the TE position. Did we go to a 2 TE offense because we happened to land two great TEs on the cheap, or did we become a 2 TE offense because BB is secretly obsessed with TEs?

Interesting question, VJ. But the answer is the latter. BB has ALWAYS believed in the importance of a great impact a high end TE can have on the offense. Almost since his start in the league he is constantly searching for the "next great TE" He as tried and failed (at least to some degree) many times over the years looking for that great white Gronk. Graham and Watson at the top of the draft to Sudfeld at the bottom. BB has ALWAYS valued a Great TE over a Great WR. Gronk is the pinnacle of TE play and in BB's mind offers much more of an impact to an offense than say a great WR like Larry Fitzgerald or AJ Green. I think that opinion comes from his experience as a DC, where he would find it much easier to defend a great WR, and much harder to defend an equally great TE.

Another thing to think about is that the rest of the NFL has been grabbing up TEs after seeing our success, that means overdrafting at the position which will cause a surplus at other positions. Maybe we should be innovating on offense instead of chasing after our 2 TE dream?

Its a copycat league. Teams have been trying to duplicate what Hernandez and Gronk brought to the table ever since they teamed up in 2010. But defenses do catch up.