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How frightening far we've fallen

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is it really any surprise the shape our country is in? We're probably not a hell of a lot more popular in the world than the Saudis. Our economy is such a disaster that the government is forced to spend record sums to quickly generate jobs and, hopefully, stem the economy from spiraling out of control.

    But, in a way saddest of all, is how low the age of Reaganism has sunk our great nation in terms of its anti-science ignorance. I think the numbers reported below will start to turn around under the relatively enlightened leadership of Obama and the Democratic Congress. Those numbers better turn around if we're to remain competitive and avoid getting caught up in ideological wars. Intelligent Design is patently absurd. It's basically the science of, "Gee whiz, nature's so awesome that it can't possibly be explained by science; it had to be put together by God (or aliens)."

    Pew Research Center: Darwin Debated: Religion vs. Evolution

    In the 150 years since he published his groundbreaking On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, and the 200 years since the date of his birth celebrated this week, Charles Darwin has failed to convince the majority of Americans of the validity of his theories; an August 2006 survey by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life and the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, found that 63% of Americans say they believe that humans and other animals have either always existed in their present form or have evolved over time under the guidance of a supreme being while only 26% say that life evolved solely through processes such as natural selection. A similar Pew Research Center poll, released in August 2005, found that 64% of Americans support teaching creationism alongside evolution in the classroom.

    Here's a graphic that compares the US to other countries:

    [​IMG]

    File:Views on Evolution.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Read this this morning, and what is not pointed out is 36% do not care and 25% believe in intellligent design.. it may be more a sign of the economic times than anything else.
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Such great news!!!!

    Now there is real hope!!! I know you didn't intend it this way, Patters, but you have brought inspiration and joy to billions by pointing this out!!!

    Just to know that the vast majority of Americans have not been scammed into believing the materialist/atheist garbage of the Far Left means that God can still work, more now than ever before.

    [size=+5]Halleluja!!! Halleluja!!! Halleluja!!!

    [/size]


    :singing: ................... :singing:................... :singing:

    //
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You really are a Festering Sore on the azz of humanity
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Patters,

    What color is the sky in your world? Seriously :confused:
  6. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never understood the adulation for Reagon. I appreciate his rebuilding the military but as for the rest he gave us Supply Side Economics that VOODOO Economic theory of deregulation of banks,big oil, large corporate tax breaks, disposable works, anti unionism, Privitisation of every thing (hello KBR) That has brought us to this juncture. To the brink of economic collapse. Not to mention the dumbing down of the populace of this country by cutting funding for schools and science. I didn't read your article Patters i didn't have to. I remember it as it happened.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    [size=+5] May God bless you, young man, and may you grow in His Grace.[/size]



    :singing: ...........................:singing:.............................:singing:


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  8. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    The government is not forced to do anything. The politicians are using the bad economy as an excuse to grab more power and money for whatever group they pander to; banks and corporations on the right, unions and healthcare on the left. Gov't spending didn't result in quick generation of jobs in the depression, it didn't help Japan in their lost decade, it didn't help anything with the original $700 billion layout.

    Patters sometimes I read your posts and just shake my head. You really think Reaganism is to blame for Americans believing in creationism? Really? Many of those people are religious idealogues who's minds wouldn't be changed by someone "enlightened" like Obama saying evolution is true. You need to deal with the fact that there are a lot of Christians in this country, there always have been, and with immigration of more and more Catholics from Europe and South/Central America that is not going to change. Its not the government's fault, some of the best evolution research in the world is done in the US with public funds, and that was just as true under Reagan and Bush as it was under Carter and Clinton.

    By the way we just had 8 years of a President who believes in the theory of evolution:

    "I think the creation of the world is so mysterious it requires something as large as an almighty and I don't think it's incompatible with the scientific proof that there is evolution."

    Bush: I believe in evolution AND God - but I'm not sure he voted for me for president | Mail Online
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reagan signaled a cultural shift. Under Kennedy, the sciences became increasingly important and that was pretty much embraced in education policy and national policy through Carter. But, under Reagan, we shifted from science to business and religious groups gained a lot more influence. Regardless of Bush's personal beliefs (and Clinton's too), the influence of science decreased as the influence of religious groups increased and business fields began attracting talent that would have otherwise have gone into the sciences.
  10. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Science is a business, and the business-friendly policies of the 80s through today allowed for some of the greatest scientific achievements known to man by American researchers and American companies. The "Age of Reagan" was also the dawn of personal computing as well as biotechnology. Scientific research of all kinds has been well funded throughout our recent history. Any cuts were small and at times when other offices were being cut as well.

    I guess the other part of it is let's assume there was a cultural shift (what would that same poll you posted have been in 1960? 1970?), do you blame the government for it or the people? And again making an assumption and saying it was the people, what should the government have done? More money? Strong statements ridiculing creationism?
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Reagan was the "result" of Americans' desires where they wanted to go; he was never the "cause".

    After 4 years under one or the very worst presidencies in American history, after seeing gas lines a mile long, gas rationing, stagflation -- where there was record inflation with simultaneous zero economic growth -- and then, to top it off: to have the rag-tag Shiite fanatics take over Iran and then capture the entire United States Embassy, holding some 54 prisoners for 444 days, the American people wanted out of Carter and the failed Dem presidency in the worst way. Reagan just happened to be there. He looked good, sounded good, so he was chosen, chosen by the American people.


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  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not saying the age of Reagan did everything bad. There are certainly a handful of things I agree with Reagan about. But, while business has been good to many aspects of science, the general education of the public has lagged. This involves support, as we did after Sputnik awakened us from our stupor, for more public education and more grants to the sciences. I think it's just a matter of time before some threatening breakthrough in another part of the globe takes place and we suddenly realize how far behind we are in the sciences.
  13. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Patters, just had a thought that maybe I was misinterpreting you, maybe what you were saying is that you hope the election of Obama signals another cultural shift to a more secular, I guess you might say enlightened age, not that the government was going to effect the change you were hoping for. That idea I could understand (but probably still disagree with!).
  14. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    We are still THE world leader in much of the science I am familiar with. Other countries (particularly in Europe) are starting to catch up, but that is due to them placing the same focus on science that we do, not us lagging behind them. It would be difficult or impossible for us to jump out ahead again as we were before, just like in other sectors we had to adapt to increasing international competition (autos, manufacturing, etc.). A focus on the sciences is a good thing definitely, but increased funding may not have the profound effect we would be looking for.
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You old fool gas line started in Nixons time. Stagflation/Nixon. Yeah that was really a rag tag militia.......its still in power and has more influence in the region than we do. As for Carter I recently looked up the hx of his presidency. Hes not nearly as bad as you people make him out to be. For one he brought some sembalance of peace to the ME getting Egypt and Israel to sign the Camp David Accords. Thats more than George "Bonzo the chimp" Bush did.
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Carter was certainly better than Bush. He deserves great credit for his role in the Camp David peace accords and for making human rights a real part of our foreign policy (at least until Bush came along). Also, his economic policies weren't the greatest, but by the end of his term he managed to get the economy moving in the right direction, which is more than Bush did.
  17. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Human rights were only a part of his foreign policy when it suited his needs. The policy of detente ignored the suffering of those living under communist rule. Reagan was the one to really push for human rights for large portions of the globe.

    The economy was not moving in the right direction in 1980.

    Nixon's admin did much of the heavy lifting in the ME peace agreement, believe it or not.
  18. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Wanted to post this, its math and science scores from 2008 in a cool interactive map. What it shows me is that we're right in line with Europe for both and Asia in science, but lag behind Asia in math. Be interesting to find the historical numbers and see if in fact it has been a case of other countries catching up to us vs. us falling back to the pack, which is what your theory should show us Patters.

    World math and science scores - Boston.com
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Softly And Tenderly
    Jesus Is Calling
    Calling For You And For Me
    Beyond The Portals
    He's Waiting And Watching
    Watching For You And For Me

    Smite the scumsucking Pelosi Bastards Dear Lord Smite The Son Of A B!tches Good, For They Know Full Well What They Do, Burn Them Oh Sweet Lord Savior Jesus Christ Burn Them In Hell, Oh My God.
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Carter was so much "better" that some 18 countries went communist during his presidency, including Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Angola, Mozambique, Ethiopia, and Nicaragua. Carter was the worst president in American history for his total ignorance as to the actual design, purpose, strategy and tactics of communism. He almost gave America away on a platter to the Soviets. Totally incompetent.


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  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Carter's focus was on the Middle East. He did not have a partner in the Soviet Union as Reagan had in Gorbachev. But, certainly Reagan's biggest achievement, ending the Cold War, was an example of using human rights as an effective part of our foreign policy. Every president builds on the good work of the people who came before him. Carter did build on the Nixon legacy. Nixon would have been a very good president if not for his utter dishonesty with Watergate.

    Employment was climbing and inflation was dropping. The usual Republican party line is to credit Paul Volcker (a Carter appointee, not Carter). Reagan almost immediately began deficit spending, which created jobs. Reagan's example in that regard is a good one for Obama to follow, though Obama will of course, invest in helping Americans, rather than helping foreigners.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  22. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Admit it Harry. You really like the festering sore part and wish you had thought of it first. :singing::singing::singing:

    Jealousy will get you nowhere.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  23. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Nixon is fascinating, he did some very good things for the country but was ruined by his pathological need to get back at people and to know what was going on. I want to read more about him when I get a chance.

    Reagan began his fight against communist oppression before Gorby came into power over there.

    Both unemployment and inflation were higher in 1980 than they were in 1979, at least from the graphs I found:

    Historical Inflation data from 1914 to the present
    The United States Unemployment Rate By Year

    Inflation has it by month and the last 4 of 1980 are stable at about 12.5%.

    Anyway sorry that was OT, but an important rebuttal.
  24. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The American public is insanely stupid as evidenced by it refusal to save for the future, protect the environment and tune in en masse to "American Idol" as if that's the best way to spent their time.
    We poison our children with chemicals in the food and with psychoactive drugs that, 30 years ago, most doctors would hesitate prescribing to an adult.
    We keep believing that there can only be two political parties.
    Americans sell each other alcohol (not sell...MANDATE) at church events and on the TV all night but throw someone in prison and take all their stuff for growing marijuana in their yard.
    We say birth control promotion is wrong, yet the future for an unwed teenage mother is almost always perpetual poverty and a series of boyfriends, some who will molest the child at one point or another.
    We sentence a man to life in prison for three felonies regardless of the nature of the crimes, yet Madoff ruind countless lives with his scam and gets to remain a free man because he's got billions of other people's money.
    We drop $350 billion on failed banks and brokerage houses on Wall Street that vanishes without a trace and then do it again because the first time didn't work, except this time we give three times the amount.
    There's lots more.....

    Who can be surprised that the majority of Americans believe in a 5000 year-old child's fairy tale about how the "Invisible Man" created nature and that humans co-existed with dinosaurs?
  25. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well said,and when you get on a roll there a few others that can match you.
  26. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Thanks. I had to stop myself to answer a call here in the trailer.

    I see things like this and then I go talk to people on the jobsite and around other places and my informal feedback doesn't resemble anything like the poll results. I'd bet the house that I could go back to the jobsite outside, ask twenty people if they believe in evolution and 19 will say yes. Maybe it's because I'm in New England. If I was in Texas or Kansas the number would be closer to 5....very disturbing the force of willful ignorance. These same morons think that a sick or dying child is God's will rather than try to understand what's happening in the kid's body and find a cure. The poll explains why medical research - hell, research in general, is always underfunded and resisted by the People...very upsetting and embarrassing.:(
  27. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    I love these a$$holes who want the government to tell everyone what to believe.

    Everyone should put a silver shamrock mask on and government can broadcast a signal. "Evolution is truth, evolution is the truth"

    The same turds don't want any religion in in anything, but they want to shove their atheistic views down your ******* throat.
  28. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Religion asks "Who?"
    Science asks "Why?"

    The two, often compared, reasonongs for the age old question of the meaning of life are starting from opposite sides of the spectrum.

    One assumes the 'thing' behind it all is a person. They give this person a name, and claim worship of that person will bring about a pelasnat afterlife. An afterlife that, to this day, nobody has written any report about, nor collected data on. You just need to accept the ever evolving narrative....after you choose which one of them you want to believe.

    The other seeks data, searching for proof. Faith may be a guide in the belief of science, but their faith is in thier theory that they will find evidence. I applaud science for not assuming the world is flat and stopping there. For not assuming the sun revolves around the earth, and not stopping there. For presenting theories to be proven or disproven by peers, for EVOLVING knowledge and furthering the huma race.

    If you believe in a god, and think that someone is going to 'hell' if they don't believe in YOUR God, then who the *** are you faithfully hoping to hang with in the afterlife? An insecure b!tch, in my opinion.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009
  29. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's nothing atheistic about believing in evolution. In fact, the Catholic Church believes in evolution or at least says there is no contradiction between religion and the theory of evolution. Do you think they're atheist? And I'm sure I can give you many more examples of organized religion shoving its views down our **** throats, then I can of atheists doing that. Whether we're talking about In God We Trust, one flag under God, the attack on those who greeted people with Happy Holidays, or the attempt by religious Christians to force schools to teach their preferred theories of creation, religion is vastly more aggressive than atheism, though hopefully that will change so that we don't continue to engage in religious wars.
  30. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tear Down That Wall You Communist Bastards

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