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How Free Is America?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Claremonster, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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  2. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    A few of us are already well aware. But the machine rolls on...
     
  3. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'd like to propose a discussion on the meaning of freedom. To me, freedom is

    the ability to, with enough work, achieve and become anything you'd like economically

    do anything you'd like so long as it doesn't infringe on the freedom of others as outlined here

    Live, free of burdens put onto you by nature or others, be they disease or hardships out of your control to avoid

    Pursue happiness, be it through success in the material works or through spirituality free of undue burden
     
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This article speaks to economic freedom... not freedom in general. They define it as..

    According to them what brings down our average are size of government, legal system and property rights and freedom to trade internationally...

    Interestingly this study is done in conjunction with the Cato Institute.. so there may be some bias.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2013
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "Might be?" Cato? Really?

    There was some scifi show where everybody is happy and healthy and free, but if you stepped over a line and walked on the grass -- literally -- they had to execute you. They explained how everybody is free and happy and they have a simple law where the death penalty is for everything.

    You can have a single law (if you do anything against the rules, national, state, or local, we'll kill you.) You could have, say, five hundred guys running a giant airforce of summary execution drones. You could send home lots of people who work for various judicial and enforcement organizations.

    You would not be freer, trust me on this one guys.

    Often I see righties trotting out empty referents about "how much regulation" there is in some measure or another. One day they're counting pages in a law, or uses of "shall," a really common word in regulatory law.

    The next day they're all echoing some email's claim about how there are already X thousand laws on the books about guns. Meaingless pablum, because you automatically multiply laws by taking them from the federal level down to the state and local levels. You also introduce ridiculous hypocritical patchworks of laws, which make us "less free" because we don't even know the laws pertaining in the town next door, yet live in a mobile society.

    However, this morning I am quite mindful of Icy's recent core dumps on erosions of actual freedoms (i.e., the "anti-terrorism" measures since 2001 & still continuing to be "enhanced" today.)

    If we're going to accept such erosions of freedom, we should probably use them to stop gun violence, which takes tens of thousands of lives a year, not just the specific kind of terrorism that hit us once and took 3 thousand lives.

    PFnV
     
  6. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    Hypocrisy soaked response.... The whole thing.... Don't even know where to start... I guess with your own constant flow of hypothetical drivel in just about every post.

    But then again.....one should not expect anything else from you when presented with a hypothetical

     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    whatev, internet millionaire :)
     
  8. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    I guess it depends on how one defines freedom. A quick Google search of the countries mentioned illustrated goverment rights violations. In Taiwan, "Government officials required that all protesting activities should be shield off within Chen Yunlin’s eye-sight. Taiwanese flags were banned, protesting groups were expelled or arrested, Taiwanese songs were shut off in near by record stores and there were also violence conduct by polices against civilians." Free Speech In Taiwan

    Qatar: Qatar has the highest ratio of migrants to citizens in the world, with only 225,000 citizens in a population of 1.7 million. Yet the country has some of the most restrictive sponsorship laws in the Persian Gulf region, leaving migrant workers vulnerable to exploitation and abuse. Forced labor and human trafficking remain serious problems".

    World Report 2012: Qatar | Human Rights Watch

    Estonia; Looks like they have their act together, did not see any abuses.

    United Arab Emirates: Human rights defenders and government critics face harassment, imprisonment, and criminal prosecution. The UAE’s penal code criminalizes speech based on broad content-based restrictions, allowing the government to prosecute people for speech critical of the government, in contravention of international standards. BTW, it sucks if your a woman in this country.

    Bahrain: Bahraini authorities are doing everything they can to suppress peaceful protests, even arresting human rights defenders monitoring the protests

    Bahrain: Free Human Rights Defender | Human Rights Watch

    WOW! A quick Google of these places showed a wicked peaceful place to live.........
     
  9. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Right... If you could, you would, and yet you didn't. ... Using clever blanket cliche like this doesn't make it so just because you're unwilling to do the work.

    Point out what you think is "hypocritical" or get along with yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  10. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    It doesn't take a genius to figure out that America's freedoms are very much being eroded on a speedily rate. We are going downhill pretty damn fast. And not on just a business sense either.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But your article refers to economic freedom..

    Have been around for a while now, and feel freer than I did when I was younger.. it is about perspective.

    Except for some minor inconvenience while flying, there is no appreciable difference.. could get hyperbolic or anecdota, however there is enough of that.
     

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