Welcome to PatsFans.com

How does the Republican Party recover?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 22, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    Since Reagan and before, the Republican Party has based its success on issues that many white Americans, particularly in the South, have with the black and Latino communities. In addition, under Rove, the Republicans effectively used anti-gay sentiment to score some important electoral victories. The Republicans now have deeply entrenched in their ranks a large number of people who oppose immigration, regard programs that promote equality as handouts, believe that gays should be marginalized, have serious issues with Muslims, have significant differences with a large part of the female population, and long ago, thanks to their anti-Semitism (particularly with their hiring practices up until around 1960), alienated the Jewish community.

    Even if you think the Republicans are misunderstood, the fact is that most minority groups do not believe the Republican Party will do much to address discrimination and the damage done by past discrimination.

    Now, from a purely practical angle, the Republicans have two choices:

    (1) Hope that the Democrats do so horribly that people have no choice but to turn to the Republicans. But, that's unlikely, and at any rate, it's not really a plan.

    (2) Find a way to attract minorities. But, can the Republicans support immigration reform, legal reform, and social reform without alienating the people who form their base?

    Maybe the Republican's best hope is that Obama does so good a job repairing the economy that socially conservative blacks and Latinos will take another look at the Republicans? How do you think the Republicans can recover? How do you think the Party will evolve? should evolve?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,873
    Likes Received:
    108
    Ratings:
    +240 / 8 / -13

    Pubbies win when they advocate limited government, not when the RINO try to sell demlite. They may not come back from the mess they made of domestic policy when they were in power. They spent money like drunken sailors and even started new entitlement programs.
     
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    It'll recover the same way the democrats "recovered", and that's by pointing a finger at the other guy, when they eventually screw up. I don't call it Coke or Pepsi for nothing.
     
  4. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    I agree, they'll be back. People were saying the same thing about the Democrats a few years ago too. It's ebb and flow in this country.

    And you're right on with your analogy of Pepsi and Coke, not only because they're direct competitors, but because Pepsi and Coke team up when they have to keep out legitimate third party competition. Sound familiar?
     
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    40,216
    Likes Received:
    196
    Ratings:
    +667 / 2 / -9

    They'll recover when they start getting some balls and fight back, they'll recover when they start "hating" they'll recover when they START being vicious, nasty bastards like the "Grinning Pelosi Gang Of Skunks"

    They nominated a "Democrat Clone" to run as their President the day they did that was the day they lost.

    When 2012 comes around they should find a Hard Core Neo Con who has a Black Mother and a Hispanic Father then they should run Sarah Palin as his VP if they could do this the Dingobats wouldn't see the White House again for 500 years.

    This republican party we have today are a bunch of Sissy's, they deserved to lose now America is in grave danger as you all will soon see.

    FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    Farmy you are wise beyond your years my friend. The one thing Coke & Pepsi will agree to, is the prevention of RC Cola building any kind of foundation in the cola market. Patters sounds like my brother 8 years ago. The Dems are dead, yada, yada, yada. Does anyone in here have faith in Pelosi & Reid moving forward? Well, anybody aside from people like Patters. I certainly don't.
     
  7. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    The problem with the Republican party is that their job is to put an acceptable face on unpopular positions (it's OK to get rich off while large numbers of people get poorer, it's OK to fight wars that benefit military and corporate hegemony, it's OK for the government to not help make people's lives better even though it is fully capable of doing so, it's OK to live in perpetual war rather than peace, free market is awesome, privatization is awesome, etc.). So the right wing needs a large propaganda outlet to keep these ideas going, they need to clothe these ideas in language that hides what it really is and sounds "sensible" to people (e.g., small government because big government will take away your guns and tell you what to do). In short, they need a Reagan and need to smear the crap out of the left (of course they will do everything they can to do this for the next 4-8 years) so that people get "sick of it" and to make it seem like it's something it's not. SOP, other than the Reagan part.
     
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,626
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +514 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    They become Repblicans again. This is still a right leaning country IMO, maybe not in polls of party affiliation but in beliefs. We believe in small government. We believe in God. And guns. We're against gay marriage and legalizing drugs. That's big We, not little We. I don't believe in God or Guns but as a country we do. Republicans lost because they lost their minds but they'll recover and be back.
     
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,626
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +514 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    Americans do believe in a strong military and a small government and a free market. That's not the problem - Republicans just need to put a more intelligent fact on it than W.
     
  10. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Americans do not believe in a free market (there's a sliding scale on what exactly that means, anyway), Friedman and the right does. And we believe in a strong defense so that we can have lasting peace. Very different from invading Iraq.
     
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,626
    Likes Received:
    217
    Ratings:
    +514 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    I disagree with you on the free market. Yes we do. Polls might not say that right now after the goings on but we do believe in a free market and people will realize that. Iraq won't be a noose around the candidacy of Gindal or whoever runs in 2016. Defense is a good issue for Republicans.
     
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    Unfortunately the welfare state, and a massive invasion of 3rd world refugees is changing that.

    First off there is no such thing as a "free" market, there is only a "freer" one. A truly free market would have zero restrictions. The minute a single rule, or regulation is passed, the market is no longer free. That being said, Americans absolutely believe in a freer market. I do think that is changing, and not for the better. The explosion of an unsustainable welfare state, and an exceedingly dumber society, are pushing closer toward Western Europe & England. Gag.
     
  13. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    5,609
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    There seems to be a trend towards the blending of the parties; we saw that during this campaign. JMHO but this administration's policy of asking "rivals" to be part of the team in the interest of getting solid feedback from all sides,plus simply deeming someone the best person for the job regardless of political affiliation, may lead to either a furthur blurring of the lines or an emergence of some Republicans.
     
  14. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    Thanks. I do think Patters is right though, the pubbies will have to make some changes/concessions to get back in, especially if Obama does really well. There's a growing number of libertarianish folks growing out there, and the pubs are the ones that seem most poised to take advantage of that sentiment. They should try and get back to advocating smaller government, which means straying away from the neo-cons that have been at the forefront of the party for the last few years.

    It's a cycle, and they'll be back, but I think to expedite the comeback they should make some strategic changes.
     
  15. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    1) Exploding welfare state? Not in the United States last 30 years.

    2) One could easily argue that a dumber society is what gave us the last 8 years.

    3) Western Europe and England don't bankrupt families when they get ill.

    Gag indeed.
     
  16. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,146
    Likes Received:
    519
    Ratings:
    +1,344 / 9 / -7

    #75 Jersey

    Let's go in the opposite direction with this question:

    What's so bad about the "blurring of the parties"????

    Think about it.

    If that happens, then perhaps ideology may take a back seat to the competence of the individual candidate as the #1 priority.

    I don't think people blindly voted "Democratic" or "Republican" this year as much as in years past. In the past, families voted the party their fathers and grandfathers voted. Parties existed to SIMPLIFY (and blind) the voters on the issues of individual candidate competence. This year, the nation hungered for COMPETENCE and MATURITY. They saw that in Obama - - not in Pelosi, Reid, B. Frank, etc. They recoiled at the bumbling McCain campaign (not an ideological judgement, but the judgement of political pros on both sides).

    Personally, I hope the party apparatus system fades away as a result of the 24/7 info/tech evolution we are seeing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -11

    I do think the Party will be back, but they'll have to make some sort of tradeoff. Will they go the McCain route and embrace an immigration amnesty? Will they return to their post-1900 roots and become more the party of business than the party of so-called family values? Regardless, they face tough choices. I don't think the party that fails to attract minorities can survive.

    The Republican Party brand is badly damaged especially among the 40% of Americans who are minorities. It will be challenge to repair that brand, and one wonders if perhaps there will be an effort to make the Libertarian Party a viable competitor. The resistance in the past to that was that it would split the conservatives, leading them so sure defeat at the polls. But, if the Republican brand in damaged to the extent that it can't make significant gains among minorities, then perhaps it will be time to have a third party and (for conservatives) endure for at least a few years the advantages that would give the Democrats.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    I actually think it would behoove the traditionalist republicans to break away, and merge with the Ron Paul type Libertarian/republicans, since they'd be more beholden to principles, and less inclined to follow the politics of populism. The current political structure is basically a whorefest of who can make the most people buy into their line of BS, in order to get elected. I've always prefered principled leadership & ideals, to generalities & empty promises. I like people who's positions I know & understand, even if I don't agree with them. Finger in the wind politics is something I can't personally stand. But I digress. Anyhow, I think a smaller, which would also mean weaker, traditionalist small gubmit type party, mixed with real republicans and Ron Paul type libertarians, would be a good thing, in that it would enable that message of small government, isolationism, and individual responsibility to be broadcast and sold. As currently constituted, each party is a jumbolya (sp?) of special interests with no real unified set of base beliefs, or principles. It's promise anyone, anthing, in order to get as many votes you can to get elected. I think that sucks.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    NEM? Is that you? I don't know if you're just being the typical party, or ideological schill, or not, but yeah, the exploding welfare state. If you don't even know how unsustainable the entitlement programs in this country are, then there is no sense in even discussing the problems of the welfare state.

    No, western Europe & England simply kill them when substandard care. Of course, if they opt for private care, then they do bankrupt them, but that doesn't quite fit your uninformed position now does it.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,150
    Likes Received:
    223
    Ratings:
    +537 / 6 / -2

    OMFG do you really believe that? LOLOLOLOL!!!! Who was ahead before the financial crisis took the stage front and center? John McLame was (gag)! It took a financial crisis, 8 years of GWB, and the absolute fondling of a candidate by the press to get Obama elected. Seriously dude, what other alternative was there? McLame, or Obam-uh. Coke, or Pepsi. The guy was trailing on Sept 14th. I hope the guy who's never even run a lemonade stand is the greatest president in my lifetime, but the orgasmic fanaticism that comes out of the mouths, or off the keyboards in this instance, of Obama supporters is truly Matthews'esque.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>