How does tagging Cassel impact the salary cap?

[patsgo]

Some very good points brought up in the discussion. Here is the way I see it.

1. I would tag Cassel if the signs if Brady is a question mark, if we do not have to cut a large number of players to be under the cap at the start of FA (a big point many people are missing), and if we can sign a top flight CB. I am unsure of the of the Pats cap number for 2009.

2. How is 2009 affected by the looming uncapped 2010 is a big issue? I recall the year before the cap has some special provisions in regards to how long a signing bonus can be spread out which might cap some teams out.

3. The longer Cassel is on the cap without a trade is money tied up in resources we can not spend until he is traded. The best talent is off the market by then.

if you tag him the patriots must begin trying to negotite a longterm deal in good faith ,if they dont cassel s agent claims foul and files a grievance, thats in the cba,if they start shopping him, again cassel agent claims foul, they also must allocate the 14 million in march, so they will be cutting players, and signing no free agents while this plays out,cassell says im getting 14 million for one season hell im signing the tender, no team would want to pay that and then give high draft picks, so trade partners would be limited, knowing the rest of the league when it comes to the patriots all eyes will be on every move they make on this issue, my point its not as easy as people think, cassell holds great leverage and the pats are up against the cba and rules, cassell gives a great year and we get a 3rd. round comp pick, thats the best we can hope for

 

[mgteich]

I know. I also am not including amounts carried over from this year.

You are not accounting for the fact that Patriots players have
reached escalators.

 

[Pats726]

As of now, that is incorrect. The first day that the Pats can trade Cassel would also be the first day of free agency.

Was that different in the past?? I could have sworn Tebucky was franchised signed and traded BEFORE TA??? Or have they changed that so that could NOT happen time wise...just curious.

 

[mgteich]

I am NOT suggesting any violation of the CBA or bad faith negotiations with Cassel.

1) Of course, we will talk to Cassel's agent before we tender him. We will tell him exactly what Cassel is worth to us in a 1 year, 3 year and 5 year contract, and listen to any counter offers.

2) We will then franchise him in good faith.

3) Cassel's agent will ask for permission to have discussions with teams that might be willing to offer less than 2 firsts for Cassel.

4) We will give that permission.

5) The team will consider the value of the offer compared to having Cassel available on the team at a cost of $14M for the 2009 season.

6) A deal will be worked out that is acceptable to both teams and Cassel. The mechanics at that point are varied, but it has been done many times.

7) After all portions of all agreements are executed. Cassel will have a 3-5 year deal including at least a $14M bonus. The patriots will have an additional draft pick. Everyone, including the union, will be happy.

Will we get a conditional 6th, a 5th, a 3nd, a 1st, more? I don't know. However, I have been convinced that the pick is worth the effort involved.

Personally, I would consider keeping Cassel until I were sure that Brady were ready to come back at near 100% even it meant having Cassel at $14M for 2009 (or at a 3 year contract including at least $14M for 2009). Would Cassel sign a contract for a $13M bonus and salaries of $1M, $5M and $5M, with an $5M option payment due on March 1, 2010? I would think so.

if you tag him the patriots must begin trying to negotite a longterm deal in good faith ,if they dont cassel s agent claims foul and files a grievance, thats in the cba,if they start shopping him, again cassel agent claims foul, they also must allocate the 14 million in march, so they will be cutting players, and signing no free agents while this plays out,cassell says im getting 14 million for one season hell im signing the tender, no team would want to pay that and then give high draft picks, so trade partners would be limited, knowing the rest of the league when it comes to the patriots all eyes will be on every move they make on this issue, my point its not as easy as people think, cassell holds great leverage and the pats are up against the cba and rules, cassell gives a great year and we get a 3rd. round comp pick, thats the best we can hope for

 

[Miguel]

I know. I also am not including amounts carried over from this year.

Personally, I would include both.

 

[Miguel]

Was that different in the past?? I could have sworn Tebucky was franchised signed and traded BEFORE TA??? Or have they changed that so that could NOT happen time wise...just curious.

SI.com - Pro Football - Patriots send S Jones to Saints for draft picks - Monday April 14, 2003 06:12 PM

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I am NOT suggesting any violation of the CBA or bad faith negotiations with Cassel.

1) Of course, we will talk to Cassel's agent before we tender him. We will tell him exactly what Cassel is worth to us in a 1 year, 3 year and 5 year contract, and listen to any counter offers.

2) We will then franchise him in good faith.

3) Cassel's agent will ask for permission to have discussions with teams that might be willing to offer less than 2 firsts for Cassel.

4) We will give that permission.

5) The team will consider the value of the offer compared to having Cassel available on the team at a cost of $14M for the 2009 season.

6) A deal will be worked out that is acceptable to both teams and Cassel. The mechanics at that point are varied, but it has been done many times.

7) After all portions of all agreements are executed. Cassel will have a 3-5 year deal including at least a $14M bonus. The patriots will have an additional draft pick. Everyone, including the union, will be happy.

Will we get a conditional 6th, a 5th, a 3nd, a 1st, more? I don't know. However, I have been convinced that the pick is worth the effort involved.

Personally, I would consider keeping Cassel until I were sure that Brady were ready to come back at near 100% even it meant having Cassel at $14M for 2009 (or at a 3 year contract including at least $14M for 2009). Would Cassel sign a contract for a $13M bonus and salaries of $1M, $5M and $5M, with an $5M option payment due on March 1, 2010? I would think so.

The Pats should follow the same protocol that the Chiefs used last year when they tagged Jared Allen for the sole purpose of trading him later on. Neither the league nor players union had a problem with how this went down so we should be golden tagging what would be a franchise caliber QB.

That trade netted the Chiefs the 17th overall pick and two 3rd rounders.

If Cassel doesn't take a dump from here on out I suspect the Pats braintrust can get a better ROI.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You are not accounting for the fact that Patriots players have reached escalators.

That really irks me. It's my pet peve that us fans have to walk up long ramps first going in one direction, and then the next just to get to our seats. Maybe if the Pats players weren't pampered using escalators they'd be in better condition to hold off 4th QTR enemy scoring drives.

 

[Miguel]

they gave aaron rodgers 20M guaranteed..........plus his salary over a number of years........

A good portion of his $20 million guarantee was his 2008 salary.

 

[Miguel]

Cassel isn't likely to sign a Franchise tag if he goes back to being an RFA for 2010.

If Cassel signs the franchise tag and plays for the Pats at that number for the 2009 season, in order for the Pats to make him a RFA tender they would have to tender at 110% of his 2009 salary or $16,116,100 if the 2008 franchise tag is 14.651 million.

NFL Players Association › Member Services

(ii) For Restricted Free Agents with four Accrued Seasons (in Uncapped Years):
(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $771,600 for the 2006 League Year, $925,000 for the 2007 League Year, $1,002,000 for the 2008 League Year, $1,085,000 for the 2009 League Year, $1,176,000 for the 2010 League Year, $1,275,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $1,383,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable;
(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) the amount set forth in Subsection (b)(ii)(1) above; or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this Subsection is subject to the rules of Subsection (c) below);
(3) Right of First Refusal and One Second Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $1,375,000 in the 2007 League Year, $1,492,000 in the 2008 League Year, $1,620,000 in the 2009 League Year, $1,759,000 in the 2010 League Year, $1,910,000 in the 2011 League Year, or $2,075,000 in the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged
(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $1,673,000 for the 2006 League Year, $1,975,000 for the 2007 League Year, $2,142,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,323,000 for the 2009 League Year, $2,521,000 for the 2010 League Year, $2,736,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $2,971,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged; and
(5) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $2,196,600 for the 2006 League Year, $2,475,000 for the 2007 League Year, $2,687,000 for the 2008 League Year, $2,917,000 for the 2009 League Year, $3,168,000 for the 2010 League Year, $3,442,000 for the 2011 League Year, or $3,741,000 for the 2012 League Year, as applicable, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.
(c)

 

[Pats726]

SI.com - Pro Football - Patriots send S Jones to Saints for draft picks - Monday April 14, 2003 06:12 PM

Thanks...I guess my timing was wrong...I doubt they'd be able to do that with Cassel...my bad..

 

[Wildo7]

This kind of thing happens frequently, you are being overly negative using words like illegal and huge risk. It's not illegal and it's not all that risky but that's all been covered in the other thread.

You can't franchise tag someone unless you intend on keeping him. Working out a trade before tagging him would be a direct violation of that rule and if the league found out there'd be hell to pay.

 

[Triumph]

You can't franchise tag someone unless you intend on keeping him. Working out a trade before tagging him would be a direct violation of that rule and if the league found out there'd be hell to pay.

What rule? Do you have a link to support what youre saying?

KC had no intention of keeping Jared Allen last season. In fact, it was all over the media how Allen wanted out of there and how much he hated Carl Peterson.

I havent seem anything to suggest KC violated any rules whatsoever.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

I don't think NE is his first choice unless Brady is out for the season. He didn't agree to be a back up all these years cause he liked carrying a clipboard. He did it cause he was waiting for his shot to put down the clipboard and throw the football.

If his choices are starting for a crappy team such as the lions or carrying the clipboard for the Pats, I think he is heading out of town, even if the Pats offered him more money than the team in which he would be the starter.

Only way I see Cassel staying is if it looks like Brady won't be ready for the start of training camp, and BB tells Cassel the job is yours to lose. E.g. I won't bench you when Brady is clear to return unless you are hurt or are stinking up the place, but if you are playing well, when Brady comes back he is the backup, just like Bledsoe was.

I rjust read this last paragraph of your post and was like wow, can you imagine...

 

[Mark Morse]

the collective bargaining agreement states you cant tag someone with the intent to trade him, no team can afford to put 30 million to one position, those are the facts i dont need to read ya hoo thread llike lets tag him and trade him for 3 first rounders

You have a QB coming back from major knee surgery that had complications from infection, The Patriots would be smart to keep an alibeit expensive insurance policy in Matt Cassel in case Brady doesn't come back right away. Cassel want to play. He is guaranteed $14M which can be spread out over a new contract in a sign and trade deal. He will only be traded once the Patriots are satisfied that Brady will be back.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

they would have to prove intent........and as long as all parties (the pats, cassel, and his future team) are feeling good about themselves, then the league has no standing.......case closed

as for impacting the salary cap, putting up where they currently are cap-wise, along with what future dealings they may feel compelled to do (extending seymour, wilfork, any other big names), I dont think it complicates things too much to tag him and carry the load for a year.......the pats can do it pretty easily since they could work 1st year cap-friendly deals with anyone they extend (I mean if dwight freeney can only coun't for 3 or 4M in the first year of a 6/72 deal........)

the pats simply need to be prepared to carry him next year......I think cassel will go along with whatever the pats ask given the fact that he could actually be out of football right now (he looked so bad in preseason that if they cut him, I doubt anyone else would have picked him up and even if they did, he would not have seen the light of day)

the whole situation is pretty anti-climactic.......just interesting to see what the pats get for him