How does tagging Cassel impact the salary cap?

[hallfamebrady]

Although I am a fan of tagging Cassel and trading him, I am unsure how this tactic affects the Pats ability to go after free agents, namely a shut down CB.

Questions I have:

How much cap space do the Pats have heading into 2009? Would they have to cut players to get under the cap at the start of FA if they tag Cassel?

Would the Pats have enough money to sign a shut down CB early in FA with the tag applied to Cassel?

What happens if Cassel signs the franchise tag tender contract? Can the Pats revoke the contract if they are trying to facilitate a trade?

 

[hallfamebrady]

Almot forgot, how does the pending CBA showdown impact signing Cassel? I know 2010 is an uccapped year right now.

 

[Wildo7]

The Pats can supposedly tag him, then trade him before the FA period and then restructure/extend current contracts using that extra $14M that will be used up and then freed up again. Since it's illegal (and would be very hard to get Cassel to agree to anyway) for the Pats to work out a trade with another team with a contract offer for Cassel before they tag him, they'd be taking a huge risk in tagging him and hoping that another team is willing to trade for him and offer him at least $14M in his first year. I don't think the CBA affects him since that wouldn't happen until 2010 anyway.

As far as cap space goes, that'd be Miguel's department. But I'd guess that the Pats couldn't afford to pay a QB who isn't starting $14M.

 

[Miguel]

How much cap space do the Pats have heading into 2009?

Impossible to answer right now.
One would have to know
1.) how many players the Pats sign to future contracts
2.) at what level do the Patriots tender their RFAs at
3.) what players redo their current deals. Example, extending Wilfork would take up more cap space than he currently counts against the 2009 cap. But extending Jarvis Green would free up cap space in 2009.
4.) how much cap space is lost to players reaching the escalator clauses in their contracts. I think that all of us would agree that the Ghost has done enough to reach his escalator but has David Thomas.
5.) the effect of the LTBE/NLTBE calculations.
6.) do any current Patriot retire after this season?
7.) do any projected UFA resign with the Pats before free agency begins

Would they have to cut players to get under the cap at the start of FA if they tag Cassel?

See above answer

Would the Pats have enough money to sign a shut down CB early in FA with the tag applied to Cassel?

Ditto

What happens if Cassel signs the franchise tag tender contract?

The 14.6 million franchise tag tender then becomes guaranteed.

Can the Pats revoke the contract if they are trying to facilitate a trade?

If the Pats rescind the tag, Cassel becomes an UFA and the Pats no longer have the ability to trade Cassel.

 

[Miguel]

The Pats can supposedly tag him, then trade him before the FA period

As of now, that is incorrect. The first day that the Pats can trade Cassel would also be the first day of free agency.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

4.) how much cap space is lost to players reaching the escalator clauses in their contracts. I think that all of us would agree that the Ghost has done enough to reach his escalator but has David Thomas.

This isn't meant facetiously, but how do we know that? I think it's near unanimous here that he deserves it, but do any of us know what he has to do to trigger the escalator clause(s)?

 

[BelichickFan]

The Pats can supposedly tag him, then trade him before the FA period and then restructure/extend current contracts using that extra $14M that will be used up and then freed up again. Since it's illegal (and would be very hard to get Cassel to agree to anyway) for the Pats to work out a trade with another team with a contract offer for Cassel before they tag him, they'd be taking a huge risk in tagging him and hoping that another team is willing to trade for him and offer him at least $14M in his first year.

This kind of thing happens frequently, you are being overly negative using words like illegal and huge risk. It's not illegal and it's not all that risky but that's all been covered in the other thread.

 

[Miguel]

This isn't meant facetiously, but how do we know that? I think it's near unanimous here that he deserves it, but do any of us know what he has to do to trigger the escalator clause(s)?

I meant to write "but has David Thomas???"

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I meant to write "but has David Thomas???"

That wasn't my point. My point is, how do we know that Gostkowski has triggered the escalator clauses, if we don't even know what those clauses are?

 

[Miguel]

That wasn't my point. My point is, how do we know that Gostkowski has triggered the escalator clauses, if we don't even know what those clauses are?

We do not know.

Yet it seems that people are not taking into consideration the likelihood that Ghost and others have earned escalators which will take up cap space in 2009.

 

[patsgo]

the patriots will not tag him, they cant pay a back up 14 million plus the rules prevent them from tagging and trading, they will get a comp 3 rd rounder in 20010, those are the rules and the breaks unfortunately

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I am about as big of a Cassel proponent as they get, but I don't think he is worth $14 million per year.

Also keep in mind when judging how much a team is will to deal for a player they look both at the value of the pick and the cap implications in tandem. Overpriced player is not worth a high draft pick. An underpriced player is worth a high draft pick.

If the Patriots tag and trade the new team gets a one year contract for $14 million. What teams is going to want that? No, if they trade they are going to want a multi-year contract -- say 4 years for $24 million. But why would Cassel agree to restructure after getting tagged. He already has the $14 mill in the bank so in essence he would be agreeing to 3 years for $10 million. Why bother? Refuse to restructure collect $14 million and then the following year his a UFA again.

 

[patsgo]

I am about as big of a Cassel proponent as they get, but I don't think he is worth $14 million per year.

Also keep in mind when judging how much a team is will to deal for a player they look both at the value of the pick and the cap implications in tandem. Overpriced player is not worth a high draft pick. An underpriced player is worth a high draft pick.

If the Patriots tag and trade the new team gets a one year contract for $14 million. What teams is going to want that? No, if they trade they are going to want a multi-year contract -- say 4 years for $24 million. But why would Cassel agree to restructure after getting tagged. He already has the $14 mill in the bank so in essence he would be agreeing to 3 years for $10 million. Why bother? Refuse to restructure collect $14 million and then the following year his a UFA again.

ya thats why it wont happen we will get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2010 that whats realistically will happen all this other talk is nonsense and dreams, look at the rules and ramifications , and thats the way it is

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

the patriots will not tag him, they cant pay a back up 14 million plus the rules prevent them from tagging and trading, they will get a comp 3 rd rounder in 20010, those are the rules and the breaks unfortunately

You should go read the other 10 threads on this subject. If they want to, they can, and will. BUT, no one knows for sure what will happen until march.

 

[patsgo]

You should go read the other 10 threads on this subject. If they want to, they can, and will. BUT, no one knows for sure what will happen until march.

the collective bargaining agreement states you cant tag someone with the intent to trade him, no team can afford to put 30 million to one position, those are the facts i dont need to read ya hoo thread llike lets tag him and trade him for 3 first rounders

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Wishfully thinking, Cassell will sign a contract with NE rather than having to tag him. I think that will be NE's first choice. Say 2 years $15m - guarantee it but no bonus money. He might take that, given what the club has done for him.

I don't see any case where we sign and trade Cassell in time for the 09 draft in April, because Belichick won't know for sure if TB is going to be 100% until next August after a couple of preseason games. At that point, if it looks good for TB, someone will pony up a 1st rounder for Cassell and we'll part ways.

So the decision is:
- let him walk for a 2010 3rd round comp pick (approx pick #100); this will allow us to use our cap space next spring and summer for normal things, and it assumes they have some confidence in O'Connell

- sign him as described above, then trade him at some point for a 2010 1st (approx pick #15); this would make the cap games far more challenging next spring, but would also give us insurance if TB needs extra time, and would also signal that O'Connell isn't ready.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Wishfully thinking, Cassell will sign a contract with NE rather than having to tag him. I think that will be NE's first choice. Say 2 years $15m - guarantee it but no bonus money. He might take that, given what the club has done for him.

I don't think NE is his first choice unless Brady is out for the season. He didn't agree to be a back up all these years cause he liked carrying a clipboard. He did it cause he was waiting for his shot to put down the clipboard and throw the football.

If his choices are starting for a crappy team such as the lions or carrying the clipboard for the Pats, I think he is heading out of town, even if the Pats offered him more money than the team in which he would be the starter.

Only way I see Cassel staying is if it looks like Brady won't be ready for the start of training camp, and BB tells Cassel the job is yours to lose. E.g. I won't bench you when Brady is clear to return unless you are hurt or are stinking up the place, but if you are playing well, when Brady comes back he is the backup, just like Bledsoe was.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't think NE is his first choice unless Brady is out for the season. He didn't agree to be a back up all these years cause he liked carrying a clipboard. He did it cause he was waiting for his shot to put down the clipboard and throw the football.

If his choices are starting for a crappy team such as the lions or carrying the clipboard for the Pats, I think he is heading out of town, even if the Pats offered him more money than the team in which he would be the starter.

Only way I see Cassel staying is if it looks like Brady won't be ready for the start of training camp, and BB tells Cassel the job is yours to lose. E.g. I won't bench you when Brady is clear to return unless you are hurt or are stinking up the place, but if you are playing well, when Brady comes back he is the backup, just like Bledsoe was.

You're tripping...Brady is considered the Best QB ever by BB and you think he would throw him a low blow like that? You think Brady is going to accept being a back-up to Matt Cassel if he is cleared to play? wishful thinking...the Boston Media would love that.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

the collective bargaining agreement states you cant tag someone with the intent to trade him, no team can afford to put 30 million to one position, those are the facts i dont need to read ya hoo thread llike lets tag him and trade him for 3 first rounders

who is to say what the intent is.......sure the CBA says that, but it still occurs all the time

I don't believe I've read anyone expect 3 first rounders for him......you must be hallucinating........

Cassel would have to file a grievance.........which would not fly since brady will not be 100%.......

all Cassel has to do is sign the tender, and he's got 14M for next year guaranteed..........

at least know something if you are going to act like a know-it-all

 

[patsgo]

who is to say what the intent is.......sure the CBA says that, but it still occurs all the time

I don't believe I've read anyone expect 3 first rounders for him......you must be hallucinating........

Cassel would have to file a grievance.........which would not fly since brady will not be 100%.......

all Cassel has to do is sign the tender, and he's got 14M for next year guaranteed..........

at least know something if you are going to act like a know-it-all

so why would the patriots risk him signing the offer then they are stuck paying him 14 million and thier whole salary structure is screwed up, stop dreaming hes walking and the pats get a 3rd round comp pick, the players unioun will be all over this , even if the pats traded him what team wants to eat 14 miilion of cap room in one year, put your brains back in your head