How do we slow down the Giants WR's?

[duce110]

Cruz wasn't drafted. He is an UDFA.

Talk about your proverbial blind squirrel.

I never said he was drafted... I said why can't WE draft WR's like this,

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Since "we're" all the problem (and that's with as many of the current positive posts as possible), maybe we can all somehow come up to your level as fans?

The majority thinks it's going to be a hard game, look at about 90% of the threads on this board.

If you don't agree with it, that's fine...but don't tell us all how "you're always right, and we're always wrong either."

You remain in the 1% of the fanbase that obviously thinks the game is in the bag, more power to you. I hope you're right.

And for the record, the defense is mediocre. I think we all know that.

You "think"

That's the first problem.

Considering the fact that the Patriots are playing in the Super Bowl should be a ready hint that certain posters have been more correct than others.

Where have you been?

Did you ever bother to "think" about that?
I "think" not.

Also, I never said the Super Bowl was going to be easy. I have valid reasons for that; not clueless convictions because that's what I "think".

Your buddies are over in the corner with a designer cone hat for you.

Run along.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I think Nicks is the still the Giants best receiver despite the success of Cruz. However I think this D is equipped to deal with what Nicks brings, the speedier of the crew hurts us more....

Enter Victor Cruz. Speed kills and that is especially true against our secondary. I would like to see us double him underneath at times make Eli go to longer developing routes to help out our pass rush. When Eli is uncomfortable Cruz is the security blanket and you saw that against the niners.

I like our chances defending the deep stuff in this game. We sold out on the run against the ravens and that helped flacco's numbers imo. We held Ray Rice to 60 freakin yards rushing that doesn't happen without dedicating extra resources to the rushing attack and that afforded flacco looks Eli won't get.

 

[whoartthou]

True, but these are speed receivers you are talking about. The Giants' offense is based on timing, much like the Packers was this year. All three receivers are very similar; they are going to try to beat you with perfectly delivered balls 10-15 yards downfield. The problem with that is that, while it is tough to stop, the offense can take itself out of the game with a few misses. This was the problem with the Pats 07 offense as well.

The Patriots' offense is much less based on speed and separation, and while they don't strike for the big play a lot, they are a lot more consistent in their drives because they rely on yards after catch, size, and power. Gronkowski cannot be shut down in the way that Nicks can; Hernandez takes high percentage passes and runs with the ball; Welker mostly runs short patterns.

The Giants might torch us, but they may find themselves with a lot of three-and-outs for lack of consistency. Eli Manning is still only a 61% passer this season, and 58% over his career.

This isn't to say the Pats can stop the Giants, but it is to say that the Giants are a more likely candidate to put a dud on offense.

I think it is the other way around. Given that the giants defense is much better than ours, i can easily see our offense laying an egg more so than mannings. Hell, we all thought the ravens offense wouldn't do jack squat to us, yet they lit us up. If the front four of the giants get to brady, we better pray our D is playing on an all time level

 

[duce110]

I think Nicks is the still the Giants best receiver despite the success of Cruz. However I think this D is equipped to deal with what Nicks brings, the speedier of the crew hurts us more....

Enter Victor Cruz. Speed kills and that is especially true against our secondary. I would like to see us double him underneath at times make Eli go to longer developing routes to help out our pass rush. When Eli is uncomfortable Cruz is the security blanket and you saw that against the niners.

I like our chances defending the deep stuff in this game. We sold out on the run against the ravens and that helped flacco's numbers imo. We held Ray Rice to 60 freakin yards rushing that doesn't happen without dedicating extra resources to the rushing attack and that afforded flacco looks Eli won't get.

The Giants running game is no where as compared to the Ravens but they have developed that running game of theirs... Bradshaw is going to give us work, granted he likes going up the gut, which is where our D usually contains...

 

[West Philly Patriot]

The Giants running game is no where as compared to the Ravens but they have developed that running game of theirs... Bradshaw is going to give us work, granted he likes going up the gut, which is where our D usually contains...

Agreed.

Ray Rice>>> Ahmad Bradshaw

Ricky Williams>>> Tip toe bandit

Ravens O-line run blocking>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Giants run blocking

 

[zipster9]

I think Nicks is the still the Giants best receiver despite the success of Cruz. However I think this D is equipped to deal with what Nicks brings, the speedier of the crew hurts us more....

Enter Victor Cruz. Speed kills and that is especially true against our secondary. I would like to see us double him underneath at times make Eli go to longer developing routes to help out our pass rush. When Eli is uncomfortable Cruz is the security blanket and you saw that against the niners.

I like our chances defending the deep stuff in this game. We sold out on the run against the ravens and that helped flacco's numbers imo. We held Ray Rice to 60 freakin yards rushing that doesn't happen without dedicating extra resources to the rushing attack and that afforded flacco looks Eli won't get.

Cruz and Nicks are deep threats... No doubt Pats have to double-team at least one of them...

But, the secondary or LBs MUST hit them hard within the 5yds to knock the WRs off their routes...

 

[ausbacker]

 

[patfanken]

Agreed.

Ray Rice>>> Ahmad Bradshaw

Ricky Williams>>> Tip toe bandit

Ravens O-line run blocking>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Giants run blocking

Now you are on the right track.

Of course this is going to be a formidable task. The Giants are a talented team, who is playing well right now. But they are FAR from the invincible juggernaut some here are proclaiming.

1. This team LOST 7 games this year

2. In the first match up, minus Nix and Bradshaw, the Giants managed only 250 passing yards most of which came in their last 2 drives, AFTER our two starting safeties had been knocked out of the game

3. The Giants haven't rushed the ball well all year. Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't nearly the threat Rice and Williams were.

4. The Giants OL allowed 7 sacks and TWENTY QB hits vs the Niners. They have a great rush, but I'd settle for half of that.

5. Speaking of the OL, the aren't good in run blocking and in the playoffs they've had trouble keep Manning clear. Their OL is a big match up advantage for the Pats

6. I admire Manning's courage, but he's still only had just above a 50% completion rate in the NFCCG

7. The Giants defense face just one legitimate passing threat vs the Niners (vernon Davis). They will face 4 in Indy.

8. While I will acknowledge the Giants have a better pass rush, the Pats have a much better OL and a QB who is as well equipped to handle pressure as any in the league. They are also a better run blocking OL, going against a weak run defense.

Certainly there are match up problems. They will use Cruz as their Welker. They will us Nix as a deep threat, and Manningham is their version of Plex, big physical, and slow. To a degree the Pats need to be physical with the receivers on the LOS. They need to put hits on Manning, even if they can't sack him

Ultimately for all the strategies and match ups, because we have as many good ones as they do, the game will be won or lost on turn overs. If we turn it over 3 time like we did yesterday, or 4 times like we did the last time we played them, we will lose. If we have 8 penalties for 87 yds like last time we will lose. If Brady plays as badly as he did, we will lose.

But all that being said, its a pretty even match up and the team that gets the lucky bounces will win the game.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Cruz and Nicks are deep threats... No doubt Pats have to double-team at least one of them...

But, the secondary or LBs MUST hit them hard within the 5yds to knock the WRs off their routes...

Cruz has that capability but with manningham back they will mainly use him in the slot for the short to intermediate area. Manningham and Nicks are your outside guys. Nicks is the best Deep threat that team has he's pretty physical, leaping ability, strong as well as sure handed and has enough speed to make you pay.

 

[BHSL2]

Do we treat Eli Manning like an Elite QB? That's my question about our defensive gameplan this time.

IIRC, the 07 train of thought was not to let the running beat you, and if Eli made the plays, then so be it. Of course, the 07 receivers played much better than we had anticipated.

In '11, do we play Eli like Peyton? Do we disguise our coverages? Switch up personnel in certain situations? Or is that not as effective against a relatively less cerebral Giants offense..

Would love to know

 

[supafly]

Your buddies are over in the corner with a designer cone hat for you.

At least it's a designer cone hat..I'll take it.

As far as my "thinking," yes---that's what everyone on this forum does. Just b/c you don't agree with it means nothing. The defense is not anywhere as good as SF's...that's a fact.

If you see no relation to a team with a much better defense getting 7 sacks, and giving up 10 points on defense--again, that's on you.

If SF didn't have anything to do with those 7 sacks and limiting pts, maybe you feel it was the power of Tebow then? Who was it?

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Now you are on the right track.

Of course this is going to be a formidable task. The Giants are a talented team, who is playing well right now. But they are FAR from the invincible juggernaut some here are proclaiming.

1. This team LOST 7 games this year

2. In the first match up, minus Nix and Bradshaw, the Giants managed only 250 passing yards most of which came in their last 2 drives, AFTER our two starting safeties had been knocked out of the game

3. The Giants haven't rushed the ball well all year. Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't nearly the threat Rice and Williams were.

4. The Giants OL allowed 7 sacks and TWENTY QB hits vs the Niners. They have a great rush, but I'd settle for half of that.

5. Speaking of the OL, the aren't good in run blocking and in the playoffs they've had trouble keep Manning clear. Their OL is a big match up advantage for the Pats

6. I admire Manning's courage, but he's still only had just above a 50% completion rate in the NFCCG

7. The Giants defense face just one legitimate passing threat vs the Niners (vernon Davis). They will face 4 in Indy.

8. While I will acknowledge the Giants have a better pass rush, the Pats have a much better OL and a QB who is as well equipped to handle pressure as any in the league. They are also a better run blocking OL, going against a weak run defense.

Certainly there are match up problems. They will use Cruz as their Welker. They will us Nix as a deep threat, and Manningham is their version of Plex, big physical, and slow. To a degree the Pats need to be physical with the receivers on the LOS. They need to put hits on Manning, even if they can't sack him

Ultimately for all the strategies and match ups, because we have as many good ones as they do, the game will be won or lost on turn overs. If we turn it over 3 time like we did yesterday, or 4 times like we did the last time we played them, we will lose. If we have 8 penalties for 87 yds like last time we will lose. If Brady plays as badly as he did, we will lose.

But all that being said, its a pretty even match up and the team that gets the lucky bounces will win the game.

They can be had. Their running game leaves something to be desired and I feel like we can own 1st and second down early on defensively. Vince is playing like a man possessed! We have to get them into those third and longs to give our pass rush a chance.

I couldn't agree more with the Cruz to Welker comparison as far as usage. He's the go to guy when the pressure gets home. I would love to see us double him up and make Eli check down or throw deep. It's obvious at this point he and Cruz have a great feel for each other and Manning really trust him. We need to test Nick's shoulder, I wouldn't mind seeing him beat up on running downs when he's in there and pressed at the line with safety help of course.

Manning is playing the position as well as one can play it right now imo. He does what you want your QB to do when his O-line is getting creamed all day. Stand in and keep chucking it like they are the 90's cowboys. He has put the giants on his back all season. They sucked running the ball, their D was a sieve early in the year and it seemed like his receivers were taking turns visiting the injury report. I think he deserves his due.

 

[supafly]

Now you are on the right track.

Of course this is going to be a formidable task. The Giants are a talented team, who is playing well right now. But they are FAR from the invincible juggernaut some here are proclaiming.

1. This team LOST 7 games this year

2. In the first match up, minus Nix and Bradshaw, the Giants managed only 250 passing yards most of which came in their last 2 drives, AFTER our two starting safeties had been knocked out of the game

3. The Giants haven't rushed the ball well all year. Bradshaw and Jacobs aren't nearly the threat Rice and Williams were.

4. The Giants OL allowed 7 sacks and TWENTY QB hits vs the Niners. They have a great rush, but I'd settle for half of that.

5. Speaking of the OL, the aren't good in run blocking and in the playoffs they've had trouble keep Manning clear. Their OL is a big match up advantage for the Pats

6. I admire Manning's courage, but he's still only had just above a 50% completion rate in the NFCCG

7. The Giants defense face just one legitimate passing threat vs the Niners (vernon Davis). They will face 4 in Indy.

8. While I will acknowledge the Giants have a better pass rush, the Pats have a much better OL and a QB who is as well equipped to handle pressure as any in the league. They are also a better run blocking OL, going against a weak run defense.

Certainly there are match up problems. They will use Cruz as their Welker. They will us Nix as a deep threat, and Manningham is their version of Plex, big physical, and slow. To a degree the Pats need to be physical with the receivers on the LOS. They need to put hits on Manning, even if they can't sack him

Ultimately for all the strategies and match ups, because we have as many good ones as they do, the game will be won or lost on turn overs. If we turn it over 3 time like we did yesterday, or 4 times like we did the last time we played them, we will lose. If we have 8 penalties for 87 yds like last time we will lose. If Brady plays as badly as he did, we will lose.

But all that being said, its a pretty even match up and the team that gets the lucky bounces will win the game.

I agree that it will be an even game with a bounce or two (or turnover) deciding the outcome.

However, I'm not sure that the NYG's team of current can be looked at as the same one who came here in week 9.

On top of that, Manning's 50% completion rate doesn't have much to do with our secondary, as he was hit 20 times, sacked 7, and was under constant pressure from a defense way more talented than this one.

If our defense can cover the TE Ballard, and the "big 3" WR's, then they can likely get much better pressure on Manning too.

It will take an A+ effort on both sides of the ball, but I am more concerned with our secondary and defense holding up than I am with Brady and the offense having problems again.

Both teams will likely be in the mid-20's, so you're right, it will come down to whoever gets a lucky break or two.

As far as the posters who are concerned with Manning and the exceptional talent in their WR's, that is certainly understood and to be expected. They are a long way off from the "stop the run and make Flacco beat you" gameplan that we faced against Baltimore. And even then, Flacco certainly proved himself a worthy QB--which many debated all week, and claimed that he couldn't get it done.

I see no reason to believe that Manning won't have a better game than Joe Flacco, unless Belichick can put something together in the 2 week break that is considered legendary.

 

[mb6592]

Stop with the Saints game. This is not the same Giants defense. Osi Umenyiora has returned and Tuck is healthy for the first time in a long time. Have we learned nothing from 2007? That Giants defense was also not a top 10 defense during the season. How'd they play in the playoffs? They have a tremendous pass rush. Probably one of the top three in the NFL with Tuck, Umenyiora, Canty and Jason Pierre-Paul.

Brady will have to - have to - have a great game. The offense cannot afford field goals. I say we win this game if we can score 28 or more, 21-28 would be iffy, 20 and under and I don't like our chances.

 

[supafly]

They can be had. Their running game leaves something to be desired and I feel like we can own 1st and second down early on defensively. Vince is playing like a man possessed! We have to get them into those third and longs to give our pass rush a chance.

I couldn't agree more with the Cruz to Welker comparison as far as usage. He's the go to guy when the pressure gets home. I would love to see us double him up and make Eli check down or throw deep. It's obvious at this point he and Cruz have a great feel for each other and Manning really trust him. We need to test Nick's shoulder, I wouldn't mind seeing him beat up on running downs when he's in there and pressed at the line with safety help of course.

Manning is playing the position as well as one can play it right now imo. He does what you want your QB to do when his O-line is getting creamed all day. Stand in and keep chucking it like they are the 90's cowboys. He has put the giants on his back all season. They sucked running the ball, their D was a sieve early in the year and it seemed like his receivers were taking turns visiting the injury report. I think he deserves his due.

We have to continue to limit their 3rd down conversions, just like in the first meeting this yr. That was mainly the difference in coming back from that early deficit and turning the game back in our favor.

I agree that Manning certainly deserves his due, and he has proven himself as one of the NFL's better QB's.

 

[supafly]

Stop with the Saints game. This is not the same Giants defense. Osi Umenyiora has returned and Tuck is healthy for the first time in a long time. Have we learned nothing from 2007? That Giants defense was also not a top 10 defense during the season. How'd they play in the playoffs? They have a tremendous pass rush. Probably one of the top three in the NFL with Tuck, Umenyiora, Canty and Jason Pierre-Paul.

Brady will have to - have to - have a great game. The offense cannot afford field goals. I say we win this game if we can score 28 or more, 21-28 would be iffy, 20 and under and I don't like our chances.

Some people can't tell the difference when they refer to stats throughout the yr...we'll keep hearing about the 2 Redskin games this yr when they beat the NYG, but that will have absolutely no bearing on anything.

Stats are great, when they are relevant. The people pointing out the fact that "no one has ever won a SB going 9-7" are lost. That has nothing to do with the matchups of the current SB. First of all, it's only been done twice (9-7 teams), and they both lost. What does that have to do with this current NYG team? Nothing.

Even the first game here in week 9 isn't the greatest of tells either. The NYG are a completely different team who built up momentum down the stretch against better competition. They are now healthy (all 3 WR's, Bradshaw, and Amukamara) as compared to the first meeting.

While the Pats have their work cut out for them, they can develop a good gameplan and try to do the things that limit the NYG's success. That's what it will come down to, and of course not turning the ball over like last time. Everything else is pretty much just trying to skew numbers.

 

[Deus Irae]

They can be had. Their running game leaves something to be desired and I feel like we can own 1st and second down early on defensively. Vince is playing like a man possessed! We have to get them into those third and longs to give our pass rush a chance.

I couldn't agree more with the Cruz to Welker comparison as far as usage. He's the go to guy when the pressure gets home. I would love to see us double him up and make Eli check down or throw deep. It's obvious at this point he and Cruz have a great feel for each other and Manning really trust him. We need to test Nick's shoulder, I wouldn't mind seeing him beat up on running downs when he's in there and pressed at the line with safety help of course.

Manning is playing the position as well as one can play it right now imo. He does what you want your QB to do when his O-line is getting creamed all day. Stand in and keep chucking it like they are the 90's cowboys. He has put the giants on his back all season. They sucked running the ball, their D was a sieve early in the year and it seemed like his receivers were taking turns visiting the injury report. I think he deserves his due.

I think Manning's playing fine and all, but let's not forget the two easy picks that he left in the air for the 49ers, only to have them dropped by colliding defenders. The Manning level of play has been exaggerated quite a bit of late. Here are his QB ratings for his last 7 games:

90.7
45.5
61.5
136.7
129.3
114.5
82.3


Brady has just 5 games with a QB rating below 100 all season long, including the playoffs. Manning's been under 80 that many times.

 

[supafly]

Do we treat Eli Manning like an Elite QB? That's my question about our defensive gameplan this time.

IIRC, the 07 train of thought was not to let the running beat you, and if Eli made the plays, then so be it. Of course, the 07 receivers played much better than we had anticipated.

In '11, do we play Eli like Peyton? Do we disguise our coverages? Switch up personnel in certain situations? Or is that not as effective against a relatively less cerebral Giants offense..

Would love to know

I think you absolutely have to treat Eli like Peyton, as an elite QB. After all, he is one. He can stand tall in the pocket, move around (slightly...ok maybe not), and sling the ball all game long, and he can do it with consistency and accuracy.

Yes, you have to disguise coverages and switch up personnel, no doubt.

 

[supafly]

I think Manning's playing fine and all, but let's not forget the two easy picks that he left in the air for the 49ers, only to have them dropped by colliding defenders. The Manning level of play has been exaggerated quite a bit of late. Here are his QB ratings for his last 7 games:

90.7
45.5
61.5
136.7
129.3
114.5
82.3


Brady has just 5 games with a QB rating below 100 all season long, including the playoffs. Manning's been under 80 that many times.

I think it's the thought that Manning is a sort of 'streaky' QB, and he has been hot lately.

Otherwise, I certainly agree with your stats. He has stepped up this year though, at least in my opinion.