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How do the recent cuts affect the cap?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patspsycho, Oct 20, 2009.

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  1. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    With this flurry of cuts prior to the trade deadline, how much cap space did we actually clear up, if any?
  2. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    PFT's Florio answers that exactly $2.87 million has been cleared up.
  3. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron Rookie

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    But not if they re-sign Alexander and TBC, right?
  4. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    I'll believe that when Reiss (or miguel) says something. Florio is wrong more than hes right.

    Anyone know exactly how the guaranteed vet salaries work with regards to the cap? (I know if you're on the roster on week 1, and on vet min, the salary is guaranteed)
  5. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Right, unless they resign them AFTER trading for a player and restructuring THAT contract.
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The guaranteed vet salaries remain on the cap, period. We also paid Joey a signing bonus so his cap hit alone is $1.75M. TBC and Alexander were on veteran minimum deals. Matthews signed after week 1 so his deal was not guaranteed and he only counts for the weeks he was here. I think the figure Florio is reporting is likely dead cap, only he doesn't know what that is... It doesn't come off anything, it's sunk cost and it's paid.
  7. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Could you elaborate on this? I don't understand what you are getting at. Are you saying that if they trade for a player, say Branch, and then resign TBC, the rules are different than if they resign TBC before trading for Branch.

    NOTE: I am not suggesting trading for Deion, I dislike him immensely. Just using him as an example.
  8. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    Maybe my hat is too tight. And I include that I'm guessing.

    What I'm saying is that if any of these cuts clear space somehow, you use that space to trade for a guy who costs more than you could afford before you cut the guys. You then restructure the new player's deal to reduce his cap hit, and THEN when you have the cap space back, re-sign the guys.

    If I'm wrong, I guess I could post a shame avatar. Just trying to make sense of this nuttiness. These moves happening at THIS TIME mean SOMETHING. Like MAYBE my CAPS LOCK button is STICKING. :)
  9. jarnhestur

    jarnhestur Rookie

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    I agree. It's the only move that makes sense. Someone is coming from an opposing team who is tight up against the cap and can't restructure the deal themselves (or won't). Either that, or Belichick is just havin' a bit of fun with us.
  10. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    My theory is taking on water. TBC already re-signed. hmph!
  11. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    So, if you're right on this, which I'm pretty sure you are, Alexander, and TBC, if resigned at vet minimum, both cost the 450K or so they were already on the cap for, plus an additional 280K MINIMUM (10/16 of 450K) against the cap. So, at absolute minimum, releasing and resigning Alexander and TBC, if they get no bonuses and no raises, decreases the cap by .56M
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Your information about Matthews is incorrect. Matthews was acquired before the start of the season. However, he's not a vested veteran as he only has 2 years of service so his deal wasn't guaranteed regardless of when he was added to the roster.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Whatever... I think he's just gone. But people keep looking for the cap savings here and there is none except with Matthews. And in total there is none, period. We're actually increasing (spending more not clearing any) our cap by re-signing TBC and presumably Alexander.
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't cut guys at the veteran minumim just to resign them to it. Both are getting at least 2 year deals and remain on the books for their old deals too boot!
  15. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not true, unless there is some last-capped-year provision I am unaware of.

    Vets whose salaries which are guaranteed because they were on the first game roster have the option to receive the rest of their pay, but it's a one-time-only option in your career.

    And my understanding is they make the request at the end of the season, it doesn't happen immediately. So presumably the cap hit goes into next season. (So maybe the last capped year does make a difference in this case but I've never seen it said, it could be a loophole.)
  16. JSn

    JSn Rookie

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    And it looks like it doesn't apply if they re-sign with the team that cut them without missing a game.
  17. pencilneckgeek

    pencilneckgeek Rookie

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    The real question is how this affects the cap next year. Clearly, cap money is being spent this year to tie up TBC and Alexander for next year and/or beyond w/o as big a hit in future years. Wonder if this tells us anything about the probability of next year being uncapped?
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  18. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    Right, but the absolute least you can sign them for again is vet minimum, which means no cap savings. Their cap numbers are both going up, not down.

    TBC has already been resigned, so his number goes up, and Alexander either gets signed with his cap number going up, or he doesn't get resigned, and his cap number stays the same.
  19. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think I'll just wait for Miguel to post his analysis rather than speculate how these moves affect the team's cap.
  20. Synovia

    Synovia Rookie

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    There's no speculation. There's no possible way the cap can be decreased when you release and resign a bunch of min-sal players. The only question is how much the cap went up, and no one (including miguel) will know that until the details of the new contracts are released.
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