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How Can This Be? Any explanations?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, May 3, 2010.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    People keep talking about the "soaring crime rates" associated with illegal immigrants as one of the most valid reasons to pass and enforce stringent (and possibly unconstitutional) laws.

    It's not borne out, however.

    Crime rates in Arizona at lowest point in decades. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), the violent crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 -- the most recent year from which data are available -- than any year since 1983. The property crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 than any year since 1968. In addition, in Arizona, the violent crime rate dropped from 577.9 per 100,000 population in 1998 to 447 per 100,000 population in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 5,997 to 4,291 during the same period. During the same decade, Arizona's undocumented immigrant population grew rapidly. The Arizona Republic reported: "Between January 2000 and January 2008, Arizona's undocumented population grew 70 percent, according to the DHS [Department of Homeland Security] report. Nationally, it grew 37 percent."

    Defending AZ law, Peters falsely claims crime rates are "soaring" in border states | Media Matters for America
     
  2. khayos

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    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm trying to compare the two but I've got a new computer and it's not cooperating.

    Ik you can tell me exactly what it is that isn't tying out(?) I'd appreciate it.

    I did notice that the statistics you quote do bear out that crime has gone down from 2007 to 2008, however.

    TOTAL INDEX CRIMES
    2007 - 303,467
    2008 - 281,305
    Percent Change -7.30

    Murders were down, as were forcible rapes, aggravated assaults, burglaries, larceny-thefts and motor vehicle thefts. There was a slight increase in robberies, less than .25% and a significant increase in arsons at +4.79%
     
  4. khayos

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    Right -- so the person that MediaMatters is pointing to appears to have incorrectly stated that crime is "soaring" by which we read that at is being crime is up when the statistics show otherwise. Now that isn't to say that crime going from very high to high means no steps should be taken as ideally you move the number of crimes to zero.
     
  5. patsfan13

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    It is possible because media matters as a leftist organ cherry picks their data.


    If you go to the crime data for Alaska for example you will find crime per capita down there also by > 20%, I picked Ak because I don't hear of a large illegal alien population there.

    I would note however that AK's crime rates are about 2/3rds of Az. I suppose if I were as stupid/dishonest as the people at Media Matters I would claim that Az had a higher crime rate due to the presence of illegal aliens......

    I love how gullible and easily fooled libs are by statistics.
     
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    True, how stupid of them to pick the Department of Justice's figures to use. Definate "cherry picking" there.

    I'll tell you what - you find me the "true" figures, ok? Better tet, since I know from past experiences that you tend to totally ignore any and all requests for actual facts to back up your arguments - simply check out the line provided by Khayos which is directly from Arizona themselves.

    Crime rates are still down. You're still wrong.


    If you go to any state you'll find crime data is down. It's a fact all over the United States. I'm unsure what that has to do with anything in specific. The accusation was made that Arizona's crime rate was "soaring." The fact is - it is not only not soaring, it is going down.

    And I love how you don't even need statistics to be fooled. You don't need anything at all.
     
  7. patsfan13

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    The point MM matters was trying to make is that illegal immigrants had not caused crime stats to go up.....

    Crime rates are down your figures have nothing to say whether the rates would be lower or higher absent illegal immigrants. That is why i used the fact that AK had a drop in crime rate to illustrate the uselessness of the MM 'analysis'.


    Apparently the point went over your head. I will try to dumb down things the next time.


    BTW the FBI isn't tracking the number of illegals as a crime stat since people here illegally are by definition committing a crime. :singing:
     
  8. Harry Boy

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    Crime rates are down for the Liberals because the Liberals sympathy lies with The Criminal.
     
  9. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Nothing like an open carry state to keep the crime rate down. ;)
     
  10. PatsWSB47

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    #12 Jersey

    Yeah but her point was that these stats illustrate a declining crime rate not the other way around as people are saying as the reason for the new law, so don’t deflect......that said I think Media Matters among others would have us think that the border problem is all in our heads and that any new, stricter reforms are unnecessary and probably racist. Some won’t come out and say it but the innuendoes are there.
     
  11. DarrylS

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    Heard from a deputy in Phoenix, who upset about Phoenix being the kidnap capitol of the world, that all of this stuff is fiction.. in reality the kidnapping takes place amongst the people who reneg on their deal with the people they bring over the border.. inow it is all a myth..

    Blaming the RW media is an idiotic argument, and makes no sense as the feds are the ones who keep the statistics..
     
  12. patsfan13

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    Crime rates in AZ 150% of AZ, Phoenix has 2nd highest kidnapping rate in the world (intergang warfare, cops bieng shot, yeah no problem there, that is why 70% of people in AZ favor this law.

    BTW how bout the strain on their medical providers?
     
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Can't be addressed, 13 - it's unintelligable.


    That's been addressed already in another thread. In response to the same claim from you. Do you ever even bother to read what answers people give you? Or is your memory just that bad?

    From everything I could find it seems to be a problem between drug smugglers and human traffickers....they seem to kidnap one another with some sort of regularity.

    In fact, I found one article in which a police officer stated that in 2008 there were 359 kidnappings in Phoenix, and not one was legitimate involving a truly innocent victim.


    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...deral-challenge-anyone-page2.html#post1809360

    Is Phoenix really the 'kidnapping capital'?

    Cops get shot everywhere, 13. Show me something that says they get shot more often in Arizona than they do in Chicago or Detroit or LA. Then we can talk.

    Interesting percentage considering that 30.1% of Arizona is Hispanic. Draw your own conclusions.

    BTW, how 'bout it? Aren't you one of the ones who blames the whole medical shortage on the approaching Obamacare? Don't you regularily kick and scream about overcrowded emergency rooms in every city in the USA? Either it's a widespread problem like you said it was last month or it's specific to Az. like you're claiming today. Can't have it both ways.

    Once again, show me something factual, please. Stats, articles, interviews, etc.
     
  14. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    The CRIME rate of illegal ALIENS is irrelevant. They are here ILLEGALLY which make them ALIENS. That's why Americans don't want them here, not because of their propensity to commit crimes.
     
  15. chicowalker

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    I love how gullible and easily fooled "conservatives" are by statistics. :)
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  16. chicowalker

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    That's why some Americans don't want them here.

    Many of us can empathize with the person who came here -- illegally -- to try to make a better life for themselves and their families. When they've done that, worked hard, paid taxes (many do) and not committed crimes beyong the initial one, many of us see their value to society and recognize the issues involved when a family may have been brought up here. In other words, for some illegal aliens, this isn't a black and white issue.

    And I believe -- and certainly hope -- that everybody can recognize the difference between the kind of person I referred to above and the illegal alien who comes here and doesn't work or, much worse, commits additional crimes.
     
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    A lot of illegal aliens actually go back to Mexico for their care -- I assume primarily for reasons of language. As MrsPatsFan asks, any evidence of this strain?
     
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    By their logic there is no truth to any stated figure that says the American people don't want Obamacare or that they do want the new law in Arizona and conservatives have only been lulled, hoodwinked and fooled into thinking that numbers attached to statements, such as 70% of the people in Arizona support the new law or 53% of the American people don't want Health Care Reform mean anything since everyone knows that polls are even less reliable than statistics and you've just said statistics are there simply to fool the people.

    Excellent reasoning on your part, Chico. Absolutely excellent.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010
  19. IcyPatriot

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    #24 Jersey

    Another PoFo thread of people talking out their butts.

    These people come here to work, to support their families here and back at home.

    They don't come here to steal and you can't support your family from behind bars.

    Most of these people are deeply religious ... oh, and you thought religious are just white mid west people. :rolleyes:

    The criminals stay back home ... much easier to operate illegally in Mexico.

    Most of you would benefit from knowing some of these people ...

    they truly exhibit true family values ... not the political phony ones republicans like to eschew.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2010

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