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How are we less free?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've been on this earth for 56 years. I don't feel one iota less free than I felt when I was younger, except for the intrusiveness of cellphones. It's difficult to truly get away these days. When I was younger, if I took a long road trip, no one could reach me, and if I traveled overseas, the cost and inconvenience of calling was prohibitive. But, other than that, if anything I am more free.

    Thanks to the internet, I have far greater access to all sorts of information, and I've visited a number of politically nutty sites (right and left) with no consequences. Whether under Reagan, Bush, or a Democrat, I spoke my mind forcefully with no consequences. Apparently, I can still buy any kind of gun, and even bomb-making materials, with no consequences (unless I am up to something bad). I go wherever I want, and am sometimes stopped by security at places like airports for reasons that make me feel safer. As it was 40 years ago, there are many ways to avoid government intrusion. If you're worried about the internet, then don't do anything especially private; if you don't trust the IRS, then keep your money as precious metals in a safety deposit box or personal safe; if you fear the government spying on you from its satellites, then wear a hat.

    Certainly, freedom for women, minorities, gays, and the disabled has increased over the years. What freedoms have we lost? We've lost some of our innocence, but that's part of a change that has been going on for centuries. And knowledge and its burdens is not a deprivation of freedom.

    When righties say we are less free, what are they talking about? Let's have some specifics, because otherwise it sounds to me like nothing more than a right-wing talking point.
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I can't carry a small bottle of shampoo onto an airplane.

    I can't smoke in a restaurant.

    I have to get a social security number for my kid when he's born instead of waiting until he gets a job and does it himself.

    I have to name the father of my illigitimate child on his birth certificate if I want to get welfare benefits.

    I have to vaccinate my children before they can attend school.

    My name goes on a public list if I molest a child.

    In some states I have to have a state issued ID if I want to vote.

    God, the indignity of it all.
  3. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan Rookie

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    The Patriot Act - If constitutional rights are suspended for one of us, they can suspended for all of us.
  4. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    For Chrissakes Patters look at what taxed and how much is taxed vs. 40 years ago?
    Wether it gasoline or cigarettes. Wether its fees and licenses.
    Every dime that I can't spend on what I want because of government is an infringement on my freedom.

    I won't even get into speech. Firearms ownership. Big sodas and Fat fries.

    To me freedom in this country is a shell of what it use to be.
  5. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    Re: How are we free?

    Don't pay your taxes.ever.

    If you live in the city, plant a garden in your front yard and stop mowing your lawn. It's a hassel and a waste of your time anyway.

    Quit buying insurance for anything. And all of those stupid licenses for stuff. You don't need any of them.

    Smoke a joint in front of a cop. Ask him if he wants to buy some good stuff.

    Make your own moonshine and sell it on Craigslist and ebay. Or from door to door.

    Start your own militia or patriot (ironic) group on your right to do whatever you want to.

    Plenty of other great ideas where this came from.

    You're free, remember?
  6. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Its all relative. I think we all appear relatively free as long as we choose a socially acceptable lifestyle. Probably as free as you can be in this day and age. Could we be more free? Sure...but that comes with its own cost.
  7. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    Try doing whatever you want to do without having to pay any tax or any sort of license or any background check.

    That is how "free" you really are.
  8. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Try cutting a tree on your own property vs 40 years ago.
    Try building something on your property vs 40 years ago.

    You can't even think about it without some enviro martinet up your arse.
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    40 years ago we were still paying for wars, that is how we rolled then. Now we just go to war and never pay for them..

    40 Years ago those in the top tax bracket paid at a 71% rate...
  10. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    I'm free ....... Not sure what the point is.....both sides if the political spectrum tries to infringe on personal freedoms
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: How are we free?

    It's true, there are a lot of things we can't do. We can't drive on the left hand side of the road; we can't pee in public; we can't litter; we can't take things that don't belong to us; we can't smoke weed or shoot heroin in front of a cop (although with regard to weed that is changing); we can't make our own moonshine (which can be fatal) and sell it; we need licenses to ensure safe driving, that animals are not overhunted, and that doctors has some knowledge of medicine; we can't blast music so loud it keeps our neighbors up at all hours; we can't torture animals for fun; we're stuck with a well-regulated militia (we can't have our own, though I think those exist more or less); we can't skip out on taxes (that's been true since there have been taxes (and we had income tax in the civil war and excise tax on alcohol since George Washington); we have to carry some kinds of insurance (auto, health, Social Security, Medicare, flood insurance); we can't go outside naked; we can't physically harass strangers; and so on. Yes, there are rules to having a civilization. Maybe you favor no rules, but more likely you only favor the rules you want. In a democracy we get rules that the majority tends to want.

    But, you really haven't provided any examples of where we have become less free. In terms of speech, assembly, religion, the media, due process, self-incrimination, trial by jury, etc. we are very free. The Constitution does not grant our nation lawlessness. We are free but still governed the rule of law and the will of the people.

    We are as free, if not more so, than we've ever been.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    The problem is that there are too many people who abuse freedom in order to lessen the quality of life for others.

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