How about them DE prospects?

[mayoclinic]

Does Arthur Davis = Arthur Jones? If not, add Arthur Jones to your list also.

The love Gilbert gets on this board puzzles me as much as Ayers. I wouldn't touch him day one...or early on day two, for that matter.

Sorry, I meant Arthur Jones. My bad. I've done that before, too.

Regarding 3-4 DT prospects, I could see Ron Brace in the 2nd (though I think he will go early) or Sammie Lee Hill/Chris Baker on the 2nd day. I think that there will be a lot of demand for these guys because of all the teams moving to the 3-4 scheme.

 

[bakes781]

Sorry, I meant Arthur Jones. My bad. I've done that before, too.

Regarding 3-4 DT prospects, I could see Ron Brace in the 2nd (though I think he will go early) or Sammie Lee Hill/Chris Baker on the 2nd day. I think that there will be a lot of demand for these guys because of all the teams moving to the 3-4 scheme.

Exactly so wouldn't there have to be more options at 3-4 DE in this class?

 

[mayoclinic]

I don't know if he has to be Seymour quality. With Warren and Wilfork on the line, and an improving LB corps (especially if we can get a downhill thumper silb), having a Spears quality DE would probably work well. Someone solid at the point of attack, a run-defender first.

I would agree. If this had been Seymour's contract year and his price had been exorbitant, I would have settled for someone like Chris Canty or Igor Olshansky. Obviously not as good, but quite serviceable.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

take a flyer on dorrell scott in day 2

 

[jmt57]

DEs: Orakpo and Everette Brown will be gone by the time the Pats have their first pick, leaving the following possibilities:

Tyson Jackson (6'4", 295)
Jarron Gilbert (6'5", 287)
Michael Johnson (6'7", 266)
Aaron Maybin (6'4", 249)
Robert Ayers (6'3", 272)
Lawrence Sidbury (6'3", 266)
Paul Kruger (6'4", 263)
David Veikune (6'3", 257)
Kyle Moore (6'5", 272)
Brandon Williams (6'3", 262)
Matt Shaughnessy (6'5", 266)
Michael Bennett (6'4", 274)
Ian Campbell (6'4", 256)
Philip Hunt (6'1", 261)
Everette Pedescleaux (6'6", 305)
Derek Walker (6'4", 268)
Pierre Walters (6'4", 269)
Jeremy Navarre (6'3", 285)
Orion Martin (6'2", 262)
Will Davis (6'2", 261)
Tim Jamison (6'3", 256)
Stryker Sulak (6'5", 251)
Pannel Egboh (6'6", 276)

National Football Post listed the following as the top five-technique 3-4 DE's a month ago:
Jarron Gilbert
Tyson Jackson
Kyle Moore
Zach Potter
Jeremy Navarre
sleeper: Everette Pedescleaux

 

[tanked_as_usual]

DEs: Orakpo and Everette Brown will be gone by the time the Pats have their first pick, leaving the following possibilities:

Tyson Jackson (6'4", 295)
Jarron Gilbert (6'5", 287)
Michael Johnson (6'7", 266)
Aaron Maybin (6'4", 249)
Robert Ayers (6'3", 272)
Lawrence Sidbury (6'3", 266)
Paul Kruger (6'4", 263)
David Veikune (6'3", 257)
Kyle Moore (6'5", 272)
Brandon Williams (6'3", 262)
Matt Shaughnessy (6'5", 266)
Michael Bennett (6'4", 274)
Ian Campbell (6'4", 256)
Philip Hunt (6'1", 261)
Everette Pedescleaux (6'6", 305)
Derek Walker (6'4", 268)
Pierre Walters (6'4", 269)
Jeremy Navarre (6'3", 285)
Orion Martin (6'2", 262)
Will Davis (6'2", 261)
Tim Jamison (6'3", 256)
Stryker Sulak (6'5", 251)
Pannel Egboh (6'6", 276)

National Football Post listed the following as the top five-technique 3-4 DE's a month ago:
Jarron Gilbert
Tyson Jackson
Kyle Moore
Zach Potter
Jeremy Navarre
sleeper: Everette Pedescleaux

ahhhhh.........yeah.......those 2 would be OLB's in the pats scheme as would many of the possibilities you list..........

 

[patchick]

Even still, I think the Patriots do not draft planning ahead in this type of situation. They didn't draft replacements for Asante, Willie Mac, Colvin, Givens/Branch a year ahead. Spending a Day 1 pick on a player that might be rendered redundant if a more experienced veteran is re-signed is not something the Pats do.

Brandon Meriweather would be the glaring counterexample. Oh, and they did spend a top pick on WR a year ahead of Branch's contract expiring. At the time of the draft, Branch was firmly under contract for the season. It was months later that he shockingly shot his way out of town.

 

[BradyManny]

Brandon Meriweather would be the glaring counterexample. Oh, and they did spend a top pick on WR a year ahead of Branch's contract expiring. At the time of the draft, Branch was firmly under contract for the season. It was months later that he shockingly shot his way out of town.

CJax was drafted as a Givens replacement & they probably saw the Branch fiasco coming. Either way, CJ was not intended to step in for Branch, he was intended to step in for Givens.

And I disagree Meriweather is a counter example. Sanders hadn't exactly emerged as a sure-fire starter before Meriweather was drafted, its quite possible BB didn't see Sanders as the long term starter, and given the contract he signed, Sanders still may be viewed as a borderline starter/utility guy.. We may draft a safety to compete with him this year. With Seymour/Wilfork, we're talking about replacing mainstays on the defensive line, which is quite different.

 

[TheKraftyOne]

Here's a pretty good look at Gilbert. Impressive athleticism for his size and definitely a prospect to help with the pass rush:

DT Jarron Gilbert - Draft Video Profile - Video

 

[mayoclinic]

Exactly so wouldn't there have to be more options at 3-4 DE in this class?

Yes, I think with all the teams going to 3-4 defenses you'll see college players getting a lot more "ready" for the 3-4.

I forgot to mention 2 Florida prospects who will be draft elligible in 2010: Carlos Dunlap (6'6", 290#, supposedly somewhere in the 4.8 range) and Lawrence Marsh (6'5", 305#, reportedly timed as low as 4.88). Both extremely athletic.

 

[AzPatsFan]

1) I don't expect Green to be extended AND Seymour to be extended AND Smith to be re-signed at $1.6M or so (as would be required to keep him). So my conclusion is that we will need one or two defensive ends for the 2010 season.

2) Front seven players in our 2-gap 3-4 defense sometimes need time to develop, especially players who aren't stud game-ready top 10 picks.

3) We can wait, but it is possible to draft at DE in both 2009 and 2010 if necessary. If we choose to let Green walk and Seymour is an issue (he might sit out in camp as a franchisee), then we will need a DE starter for 2010 with draft picks that start at 32, and that would mean starting a rookie.

4) Also, we might have other needs for the franchise tag than Seymour, especially if we have a new CBA (e.g., Gostkowksi).

BOTTOM LINE
If we can, let's draft the replacement for Green or Seymour now, expecting to keep one in 2010. And just BTW, if he is good enough, and belichick thinks enough of Smith, Green could be in trouble this year. We could be keeping two of the draftee, Green and Smith.

Mgteich,

You seem to worry like a mother hen about expiring contracts. We had a bunch of UFAs this year. How many did we lose that we wanted to keep? ZERO.

Did you ever stop and realize that the Patriots management as well as the foolish players are pointing to 2010 as an UFA and Uncapped year.

IMHO the Patriots WANT 2010 to be Uncapped, fully expect it to be, and have maneuvered lots of their best players to be unsigned and eligible for new contracts then.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Brace & Sammie Lee Hill, and like DE, there are some late round NT that were of interest when reading various reports, but the names are alluding me at this point. Even a guy who has fallen off the planet like Terrance Taylor has a shot as a reserve run plugger.

IMO, either Brace or Hill seems like better value than any DE prospect I can think of. Finding a backup run plugger in the 3-4 might not be an easy task, but in this specific draft, it looks easier than finding a 5-technique DE to replace Seymour.

I second your opinion ! Well said.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Gilbert is my favorite alternative at #23, I understand Dryheat's concerns, but from what I can recall from my reading he's just a late bloomer and the maturity questions are based more on his slow development than any locker room or off-field concerns.

 

[dryheat44]

Gilbert is my favorite alternative at #23, I understand Dryheat's concerns, but from what I can recall from my reading he's just a late bloomer and the maturity questions are based more on his slow development than any locker room or off-field concerns.

My concerns are based purely on-the-field. He seems to be light and high-cut, and I think any good OT is going to own him in the run game. I don't see how he fits as a DE in the New England 3-4. I don't think he can control one gap, let alone 2 when he needs to.

 

[patchick]

And I disagree Meriweather is a counter example. Sanders hadn't exactly emerged as a sure-fire starter before Meriweather was drafted, its quite possible BB didn't see Sanders as the long term starter

Sanders was never the issue. Meriweather was drafted in round 1 when they still had Wilson, Harrison and Sanders. But Wilson & Harrison were both in their final contract years, so Meriweather was drafted a year in advance of that potential 2-man exodus. Not hard to make the analogy with Seymour & Green this year, with Mike Wright playing the role of James Sanders.

 

[patchick]

Mgteich,

You seem to worry like a mother hen about expiring contracts. We had a bunch of UFAs this year. How many did we lose that we wanted to keep? ZERO.

Didn't Gaffney, Paxton and Evans all turn down offers from the Patriots to take more money elsewhere? (And you can't say "they'd have kept them if they really wanted them," because then you have a meaningless circular definition.)

Regardless, it's disingenuous to compare a UFA class headed by Gaffney, Sanders, Evans & Wright to one headed by Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins & Kaczur. Any one of next year's big three will command as much as this year's group put together.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Didn't Gaffney, Paxton and Evans all turn down offers from the Patriots to take more money elsewhere? (And you can't say "they'd have kept them if they really wanted them," because then you have a meaningless circular definition.)

Regardless, it's disingenuous to compare a UFA class headed by Gaffney, Sanders, Evans & Wright to one headed by Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins & Kaczur. Any one of next year's big three will command as much as this year's group put together.

You are correct. I apologize. I just forgot about the forgetables. But they were all contributors.

Nevertheless the Pats WANT 2010 Uncapped, and WANT to be able to resign ALL their Stars with out hurt or hinderance of CAP. They WANT to re-sign as many as they wish to, without having to choose amongst them, or handicap them in a future next CAP regime, that they are fully confident will occur. They have maneuvered to create the 2010 situation. They expect to exploit it, and gloat over it, as they insure the Dynasty for another near decade.

And I expect them to EXTEND Brady in 2010 too, for kickers.

 

[patchick]

Nevertheless the Pats WANT 2010 Uncapped, and WANT to be able to resign ALL their Stars with out hurt or hinderance of CAP.

They WANT to re-sign as many as they wish to without having to choose amongst them, or handicap them in a future capregime..

And I expect them to EXTEND Brady in 2010 too for kickers.

I tend to agree. An interesting subplot will be the bitter RFA generation, most notably Mankins.

 

[Water Boy]

My concerns are based purely on-the-field. He seems to be light and high-cut, and I think any good OT is going to own him in the run game. I don't see how he fits as a DE in the New England 3-4. I don't think he can control one gap, let alone 2 when he needs to.

I'm very high on Gilbert, but I have similar concerns about his ability to play 2 gap. I do think he'll be a fantastic player for some team, possibly as a 4-3 DE.

 

[WhiZa]

I'm very high on Gilbert, but I have similar concerns about his ability to play 2 gap. I do think he'll be a fantastic player for some team, possibly as a 4-3 DE.

Gilbert would be a good replacement to Green if the Pats dont think they can resign him next year.

Personally I dont see any day 1 picks on the DL as there just no room for a good young player to grow into a starting position next year. The best chance of drafting a DL is to replace LeKevin Smith at backup DT and also give you some negotiating room with Wilfork.