How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation [merged]

[SEA_Pat]

Re: Peppers wants to be traded to a 3-4 team???

Did you see this? Panthers need a QB pretty badly....

Source? ...

Any video of the Panther's loss to Arizona should be sufficient.

 

[billrob]

This is from the Panthers board at the Charlotte Observer in reference to trading Peppers. It's funny what fans think their star players are worth in trade value. Can't you see BB pulling the trigger on this trade. LOL


Quote: which teams r we looking to deal with? I was thinking detroit calvin johnson & one of there first rounders? maybe new england cassel & 1st & 2nd rd? maybe a new coach thats not so dang conservative!

 

[billdog3484]

This is from the Panthers board at the Charlotte Observer in reference to trading Peppers. It's funny what fans think their star players are worth in trade value. Can't you see BB pulling the trigger on this trade. LOL


Quote: which teams r we looking to deal with? I was thinking detroit calvin johnson & one of there first rounders? maybe new england cassel & 1st & 2nd rd? maybe a new coach thats not so dang conservative!

haha, yah well maybe some teams are thinking the same things about what we think we can get for cassel. but that guy from charlotte is obviously on some sort of hallucinagenic

 

[DW Toys]

Re: How about Cassel For Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Carolina may franchise him at a cost of $16+ mill. If I were him, I would sign that in a second and go through the process again next year. (Like Walter Jones did in Seattle) He is a proven commodity, still young, that could max his dollars each and every year, verses taking the safe long term contract with say $30 mill guaranteed

I think It could work as a sign and trade on both ends. The bigger issue is CAP. He would not take a home town discount but yet with the economy, perhaps it might be less than years past. I think that if they franchise Cassel and keep him, the cheaper route might be peppers.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

that is true. bottom line for me is i think an athlete like that can change any defence. even if we kept seymour the best point on this thread was look at what happened to the talented chargers secondary when merriman was out. now inject peppers into an already good defence. i think it would be very unlikley for us not to go deep into the playoffs next yr. (normal amount of injuries aside lol)

I am not a great Seymour fan but he does get doubled a lot. You could not do that with Peppers with his hand down on a obvious passing play.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Same here. It's sad how bad the guy was this year. Paying all that money and he couldn't produce one sack.

BB bated the Jets on that one. He did his homework and got the guy he wanted at #10. That is just smarts.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Before I opened the thread I said to myself, "no way because he is a 4-3 guy". After I opened it and read that Peppers wants to play in a 3-4, I told myself, "let's do this". If BB feels that Peppers can make a smooth transition from DE to LB, than this trade makes perfect sense. The Panthers clearly need to make a change at QB and the Pats desperately need help with their pass rush. Guys, I wouldn't rule out this trade.

Plus the fact that Jake is now 34 years old and they have zip-o after him. It make sense. The CAP is the issue, although if we really were going to franchise Cassel, the money is about the same and Peppers does not load you down on one position with CAP money ala Brady and Cassel. It kind of solves three problems. Pass rusher off the edge. A little younger, play making OLB. A transitional guy to play DE on some alignments and some more help at DB. He does all of these and helps our mediocre DBs. It also gets double teams off of Seymour so he gets better.

I was hoping the Pats would make a bid for Suggs. Same deal. A DE/OLB hybrid. Probably no less expensive than Peppers.

Knowing how BB protects young DBs if at all possible like Merriweather in 2007, another Safety like Sean Jones could start day one, and we could draft someone to work in, with Rodney playing the different LB/S roll. Jones would be an upgrade and is still young.

Vrabel can be your swing guy with Bruschi and Guyton.

Cassel for Peppers and add FA S Jones make an impact with the kids coming back for year two like Wilhite, Guyton and Mayo. Maybe Crabel (IR) and Redd can produce with a year under there belt.

Then we can draft a first round type CB. Now the "D" seems to look fairly good.

A swap and one FA pick up and we can be solid.


DW Toys

 

[Amazedbyitallin07]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

You answered your own question. Even though shutdown corners are going "the way of the dinosaur", as you so eloquently put it, they can still be a powerful addition to your defense. Pass rush does have a lot to do with a cornerback's elite status but Nhamdi is still in a class all his own... at least this offseason. He is a shutdown cornerback, pure and simple. Look what he did on that Raiders defense then imagine what he could do on this one.

Peppers on the other hand, while he might be a good addition, it's not a sure fire thing or a lock by any stretch of the imagination. Too many questions would come with him: Do we only have to give them Cassel or would we have to give up draft picks? Would he fit in with Belichick's style of a 3-4? Is he smart enough to know his job? Can he set the edge and not just be a pure pass rusher? Can he help stuff outside runs? Would his coverage skills be effective in this sytem? I can honestly go on and on. So yes, Peppers could help. But, if it's between the two, I'd rather take a sure fire shut down cornerback than someone who could either be a good linebacker in this system or a one trick pony.

Fair enough. I see your point. FWIW, I'd be surprised if this trade went down. Plus, Nhamdi will cost "only" money, whereas there's a fair chance Carolina will be asking for Cassel plus picks.

 

[mayoclinic]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Plus the fact that Jake is now 34 years old and they have zip-o after him. It make sense. The CAP is the issue, although if we really were going to franchise Cassel, the money is about the same and Peppers does not load you down on one position with CAP money ala Brady and Cassel. It kind of solves three problems. Pass rusher off the edge. A little younger, play making OLB. A transitional guy to play DE on some alignments and some more help at DB. He does all of these and helps our mediocre DBs. It also gets double teams off of Seymour so he gets better.

I was hoping the Pats would make a bid for Suggs. Same deal. A DE/OLB hybrid. Probably no less expensive than Peppers.

Knowing how BB protects young DBs if at all possible like Merriweather in 2007, another Safety like Sean Jones could start day one, and we could draft someone to work in, with Rodney playing the different LB/S roll. Jones would be an upgrade and is still young.

Vrabel can be your swing guy with Bruschi and Guyton.

Cassel for Peppers and add FA S Jones make an impact with the kids coming back for year two like Wilhite, Guyton and Mayo. Maybe Crabel (IR) and Redd can produce with a year under there belt.

Then we can draft a first round type CB. Now the "D" seems to look fairly good.

A swap and one FA pick up and we can be solid.

DW Toys

That's a good point. I lot of people have been wishing for someone like Terrell Suggs in FA, but Suggs would realistically be at least as expensive as Peppers.

The key is that IF Peppers is serious about not being willing to sign a long term contract with Carolina and IF he is serious about wanting to play in the 3-4 (and willing to take a discount to do it), then it's not entirely unreasonable. Carolina is up a creek if Peppers won't sign a long term deal. They can franchise him for ridiculous $$ and lose out on Pro Bowl OT Jordan Gross unless they can resign him to a long term deal (which they may not be able to afford with resigning Chris Gamble and franchising Peppers); they can franchise or resign Gross and lose Peppers for nothing since they won't be able to afford to franchise him and he won't sign a long term dea; or they can try to put the tag on Peppers, trade him quickly, and then franchise/resign Gross. Not a great set of options.

I could see trading Cassel for Peppers (straight up, or close to it) after each one was franchised, and then signing Peppers for something like 6 years @ $50M. If we could afford to franchise Cassel and care him and Brady for 2009 then we could afford this, at least for next year. Peppers would have to want to play 3-4 under BB "to become the best that he can be" and be willing to take a discount, but at that money he would still be set for life. It would almost certainly mean losing either Seymour or Wilfork (and possibly Mankins) after 2009, and I'm not saying it would be worth it or that it would realistically happen, but imagine what we could do with this:

- Move Mike Vrabel back inside to SILB, where his loss of a step wouldn't hurt as much. Mayo-Vrabel-Guyton-Bruschi at ILB would be fine.
- Resign Mike Wright and restructure Jarvis Green.
- Sign one day 1 OLB prospect like Connor Barwin or Cliff Sintim, since Peppers is 29 and AD will be 32. AD-Peppers-Crable-Barwin-Redd/Woods at OLB would be sick. Barwin/Sintim, Crable and Redd/Woods would be solid backups now and the future in 3-5 years.
- Sign one mid-range CB option such as Jabari Greer. Resign James and Lewis Sanders. Either resign a FA S such as Sean Jones or draft one in the first 2 rounds such as William Moore or Sean Smith.

This would be the $$ equivalent of one major FA signing (Suggs/Dansby) and 2-3 moderate FA signings (Greer, resign Wright, possibly Jones). Restructuring Green and possibly Vrabel and Stephen Neal could free up some money. The rest of the draft could be spent on the offense, bolstering OT/G and drafting a developmental RB and WR on day 2.

The defense for 2009 would look something like the following:

DL: Seymour-Wilfork-Warren, with Wright, Green, Smith and possibly a day 2 DT as backups.

OLB: Thomas-Peppers, with Crable, Barwin and Redd or Woods as backups.

ILB: Mayo-Vrabel, with Bruschi and Guyton as backups.

S: Meriweather and one of Sean Jones/Will Moore/Sean Smith, with James and Lewis Sanders (or possibly Tank Williams) as backups.

CB: Greer-Hobbs, with Wheatley, Wilhite, and one more CB as backups.

That would be something to behold. Over 550# of athletically insane starting OLBs. Peppers and Thomas blitzing or just collapsing the pocket behind Seymour-Wilfork-Warren would be crazy. Imagine how much pressure we could bring off the edges and how much our DEs would be freed up from double teams. Images of AD tossing Favre and Leon Washington around like rag dolls come to mind. Again, not likely to happen, but a nice fantasy.

 

[Richter]

I don't care for Peppers as a player, he's highly overrated. He'll have trouble setting the edge in a 3-4, and his value is almost entirely in pass rushing. His production has waned in recent years, though he did have a decent bounce-back season this year. I still wouldn't do it, I'd rather trade Cassel for a first round pick and target a guy like Everette Brown.

 

[gpds69]

Peppers > Seymour by far... trade seymour for a young LB or draft pick....

 

[Deus Irae]

Peppers > Seymour by far... trade seymour for a young LB or draft pick....

.

 

[gpds69]

so you really think Seymour is better then Peppers? Really? look at there numbers....look at the games played...the sacks...tackles.. if there was a chance to get Julius Peppers, you do everything you can to grab him. Seymour=overrated..

i say good day

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Fair enough. I see your point. FWIW, I'd be surprised if this trade went down. Plus, Nhamdi will cost "only" money, whereas there's a fair chance Carolina will be asking for Cassel plus picks.

That's incorrect. The Raiders are going to tag Asomugha. That means he would cost 2 1st round picks to sign, or a trade would have to be worked out.

 

[Deus Irae]

so you really think Seymour is better then Peppers? Really? look at there numbers....look at the games played...the sacks...tackles.. if there was a chance to get Julius Peppers, you do everything you can to grab him. Seymour=overrated..

i say good day

Seymour has been to 5 Pro Bowls and, before his leg injury, was pretty clearly the best 3-4 defensive lineman in the game. Anyone who watched him play this season saw that he's playing pretty close to that level again.

 

[Steamer86]

so you really think Seymour is better then Peppers? Really? look at there numbers....look at the games played...the sacks...tackles.. if there was a chance to get Julius Peppers, you do everything you can to grab him. Seymour=overrated..

i say good day

You can't really judge them against each other by the stats....different defenses, different assignments.....we all know that NE DL occupy blockers and the OLB get the sacks and ILB and S get the tackles.....in most 4-3, the DL are in backfield making sacks and more tackles.....That being said, they are the same age (29) and Pepp isn't as ideal as a 3-4 DE as he is as a 4-3 DL and we would have to pay him out the nose for his declining years....might be better off picking some young athletes in draft....

 

[DW Toys]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

That's a good point. I lot of people have been wishing for someone like Terrell Suggs in FA, but Suggs would realistically be at least as expensive as Peppers.

The key is that IF Peppers is serious about not being willing to sign a long term contract with Carolina and IF he is serious about wanting to play in the 3-4 (and willing to take a discount to do it), then it's not entirely unreasonable. Carolina is up a creek if Peppers won't sign a long term deal. They can franchise him for ridiculous $$ and lose out on Pro Bowl OT Jordan Gross unless they can resign him to a long term deal (which they may not be able to afford with resigning Chris Gamble and franchising Peppers); they can franchise or resign Gross and lose Peppers for nothing since they won't be able to afford to franchise him and he won't sign a long term dea; or they can try to put the tag on Peppers, trade him quickly, and then franchise/resign Gross. Not a great set of options.

I could see trading Cassel for Peppers (straight up, or close to it) after each one was franchised, and then signing Peppers for something like 6 years @ $50M. If we could afford to franchise Cassel and care him and Brady for 2009 then we could afford this, at least for next year. Peppers would have to want to play 3-4 under BB "to become the best that he can be" and be willing to take a discount, but at that money he would still be set for life. It would almost certainly mean losing either Seymour or Wilfork (and possibly Mankins) after 2009, and I'm not saying it would be worth it or that it would realistically happen, but imagine what we could do with this:

- Move Mike Vrabel back inside to SILB, where his loss of a step wouldn't hurt as much. Mayo-Vrabel-Guyton-Bruschi at ILB would be fine.
- Resign Mike Wright and restructure Jarvis Green.
- Sign one day 1 OLB prospect like Connor Barwin or Cliff Sintim, since Peppers is 29 and AD will be 32. AD-Peppers-Crable-Barwin-Redd/Woods at OLB would be sick. Barwin/Sintim, Crable and Redd/Woods would be solid backups now and the future in 3-5 years.
- Sign one mid-range CB option such as Jabari Greer. Resign James and Lewis Sanders. Either resign a FA S such as Sean Jones or draft one in the first 2 rounds such as William Moore or Sean Smith.

This would be the $$ equivalent of one major FA signing (Suggs/Dansby) and 2-3 moderate FA signings (Greer, resign Wright, possibly Jones). Restructuring Green and possibly Vrabel and Stephen Neal could free up some money. The rest of the draft could be spent on the offense, bolstering OT/G and drafting a developmental RB and WR on day 2.

The defense for 2009 would look something like the following:

DL: Seymour-Wilfork-Warren, with Wright, Green, Smith and possibly a day 2 DT as backups.

OLB: Thomas-Peppers, with Crable, Barwin and Redd or Woods as backups.

ILB: Mayo-Vrabel, with Bruschi and Guyton as backups.

S: Meriweather and one of Sean Jones/Will Moore/Sean Smith, with James and Lewis Sanders (or possibly Tank Williams) as backups.

CB: Greer-Hobbs, with Wheatley, Wilhite, and one more CB as backups.

That would be something to behold. Over 550# of athletically insane starting OLBs. Peppers and Thomas blitzing or just collapsing the pocket behind Seymour-Wilfork-Warren would be crazy. Imagine how much pressure we could bring off the edges and how much our DEs would be freed up from double teams. Images of AD tossing Favre and Leon Washington around like rag dolls come to mind. Again, not likely to happen, but a nice fantasy.

I like most of what you have said. I think Dunta Robinson is closer to the Pats CB liking. He is about Asante's size and a ball hawk. He only had six games last year abut had 38 tackles and 2 ints. He was hurt the first six games last year. He is only 27. I think with his past injuries he could be had a little cheaper. When he first came into the league he had 88 tackles and 6 ints and he was supposedly a shut down corner until injuries got him. Now he is healthy. I like Sean Jones for sure over James Sanders, and he might cost about the same.

I think that Lewis Sanders was not bad when shifted to safety. I think Tank might still be an option.

I love Barwin as an add. How about Krugger from Utah. All motor. 6' 5" 265. Jared Allen type. His teammate Sean Smith is 6'3" 215lb S/CB with 5 ints and 9 passes defended.

Add these youngsters to a front seven with Peppers and you are much better.

On "O", I would still trade Maroney for a high pick. That is just me talking. Even when healthy (the key is when) he dances way too much for me. The Eagles have 2 #1's. Westbrook has a lot of wear and tear. Would they bite? The Broncos new coach might.

I like Morris and Jordan as a tandem with the guy with five or six names included. Faulk can't go forever but look what that group did without Maroney. Best running game in how many years?

I would trade our third for Gonzales (we have two) and we have a very good 2009 line up on both sides with a healthy TB. Our major adds would be Peppers, Sean Jones, Dunta Robinson (or Greer) and Gonzales. Nothing here is a "dream" or fantasy.

Peppers for Cassel makes sense for both teams. Who ever thought we would ever hear that statement last September?

Would you take a flyer on E.James for one year as a better fit than Maroney? He should be fresh after sitting most of 2008.

DW Toys

 

[BradyFTW!]

Peppers > Seymour by far... trade seymour for a young LB or draft pick....

Hahahaha, nope. Of all the criticisms that get thrown at Seymour on this board, almost every one of them can be applied to Peppers too.

In the Pats' system, Seymour is more valuable than Peppers. Even now, Seymour's one of the 2 or 3 most important players on the Pats' D. After Wilfork and Thomas, it's probably him and Mayo.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Seymour has been to 5 Pro Bowls and, before his leg injury, was pretty clearly the best 3-4 defensive lineman in the game. Anyone who watched him play this season saw that he's playing pretty close to that level again.

Yeah he is, but you certainly wouldn't know it by people on this board. Of course, as long as people judge 3-4 DEs by tackles and sacks, that'll continue.

On "O", I would still trade Maroney for a high pick. That is just me talking. Even when healthy (the key is when) he dances way too much for me. The Eagles have 2 #1's. Westbrook has a lot of wear and tear. Would they bite? The Broncos new coach might.

If we could get a high pick for Maroney, sure, but I'd be surprised if we could get a day one pick for him right now. Plus we'd have to pay more than his salary as a cap hit if we traded him. IMO the Pats pretty much just have to hope that he can contribute something next year, because he's almost certainly going to be back.

 

[Fencer]

I don't care for Peppers as a player, he's highly overrated. He'll have trouble setting the edge in a 3-4,

How do you figure that? Is he less stout against the run than, say, Mike Vrabel?