How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation [merged]

[scout]

There's a Mayo & Pepper joke here somewhere.... I'm just not smart enough to put it all together.

I want to Seymour Green on my Wheatley with Mayo and Peppers with my Bruschi. Put it on the Vrabel.

 

[lamafist]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

You answered your own question. Even though shutdown corners are going "the way of the dinosaur", as you so eloquently put it, they can still be a powerful addition to your defense. Pass rush does have a lot to do with a cornerback's elite status but Nhamdi is still in a class all his own... at least this offseason. He is a shutdown cornerback, pure and simple. Look what he did on that Raiders defense then imagine what he could do on this one.

Peppers on the other hand, while he might be a good addition, it's not a sure fire thing or a lock by any stretch of the imagination. Too many questions would come with him: Do we only have to give them Cassel or would we have to give up draft picks? Would he fit in with Belichick's style of a 3-4? Is he smart enough to know his job? Can he set the edge and not just be a pure pass rusher? Can he help stuff outside runs? Would his coverage skills be effective in this sytem? I can honestly go on and on. So yes, Peppers could help. But, if it's between the two, I'd rather take a sure fire shut down cornerback than someone who could either be a good linebacker in this system or a one trick pony.

Asomugha is a true shutdown corner!? And you figured this out how? I ask, because every time I watched the Raiders, you'd see the teams lined up, Asomugha up at the top of the screen, and then after the snap, the camera follows the QB, and Nnamdi dissapears offscreen the other way. You could argue that the evidence is that teams didn't throw his way, but that really just proves that he was covering better than the other guys in Raiders' 2ndary. It's not like the Raiders' pass D was really above average.

Furthermore, as we've seen with Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey, and even with Asante last season, reputation can be a big influence on whether QB's will throw someone's way. The one time I saw a team really challenge Asomugha was their game against our Pats, and Cassel was completing passes on him all day.

So, no, I don't think you can say that Asomugha is any more of a "sure thing" than Peppers until you've seen him play on a defense where it isn't so easy to just avoid him. If anything, I think Peppers may be more of a sure bet -- we've seen him be a pass-rushing terror, and that's entirely system-independent. He's also a much rarer physical specimen than Asomugha -- you just don't see guys with his speed and agility at that size. ((This is why BB devoted so many early draft picks to our d-line.) This is another advantage that isn't system or situation specific.

Anyway, the whole conversation is rendered moot by the fact that there's no way the Raiders are trading anything for Cassel. Like him or not, they've got to much invested in JaMarcus Russel to go trading for another QB.

 

[slash83]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Asomugha is a true shutdown corner!? And you figured this out how? I ask, because every time I watched the Raiders, you'd see the teams lined up, Asomugha up at the top of the screen, and then after the snap, the camera follows the QB, and Nnamdi dissapears offscreen the other way. You could argue that the evidence is that teams didn't throw his way, but that really just proves that he was covering better than the other guys in Raiders' 2ndary. It's not like the Raiders' pass D was really above average.

Furthermore, as we've seen with Deion Sanders, Champ Bailey, and even with Asante last season, reputation can be a big influence on whether QB's will throw someone's way. The one time I saw a team really challenge Asomugha was their game against our Pats, and Cassel was completing passes on him all day.

So, no, I don't think you can say that Asomugha is any more of a "sure thing" than Peppers until you've seen him play on a defense where it isn't so easy to just avoid him. If anything, I think Peppers may be more of a sure bet -- we've seen him be a pass-rushing terror, and that's entirely system-independent. He's also a much rarer physical specimen than Asomugha -- you just don't see guys with his speed and agility at that size. ((This is why BB devoted so many early draft picks to our d-line.) This is another advantage that isn't system or situation specific.

Anyway, the whole conversation is rendered moot by the fact that there's no way the Raiders are trading anything for Cassel. Like him or not, they've got to much invested in JaMarcus Russel to go trading for another QB.

I must of seen a different game cause to me it looked like Moss caught two short passes on him which he was right there to make the stop immidiatley, and lets not forget we are talking about Randy Moss. Nhamdi did have 2 holding calls on him during the game. All I know is when it comes to the secondary it dont get better then this guy, Id honestly take him over Ed Reed. The week following the Pats game Nhamdi put Andre Johnson who was at the time playing better then any receiver in the NFL on lockdown holding him no more then 2 receptions for I think 25 or 30 yards.

 

[TripleOption]

Pass rush > Secondary...

Even the best DB's will get burned with a bad pass rush. Best pass rush & bad DB's and you still have a fighting chance.

 

[Nordberg]

Pass rush > Secondary...

Even the best DB's will get burned with a bad pass rush. Best pass rush & bad DB's and you still have a fighting chance.

Exactly.....look at the Steelers

 

[slash83]

Exactly.....look at the Steelers

Steelers actually have a pretty damn good secondary.

 

[GostkowSKI]

The Chargers pass D got a lot worse when Merriman went down after Week 1...

 

[maverick4]

The Raiders cornerback is the real deal. Multiple respected coaches and talent evaluators say this guy is basically Deion Sanders but who can also tackle really well.

Even against us, we could only pull some short passes on him. I was watching that game closely and Moss would get a short catch in very tight coverage, and then be immediately tackled afterward. Same with Welker. Giving up catches doesn't mean you played poorly.


As for Peppers, he's maybe the best pass rusher in the game, so I would not hesitate to pull the trigger on a Cassel trade for him, so long as he reworked his contract to make it more cost friendly.

 

[StyLeZ X]

I want to Seymour Green on my Wheatley with Mayo and Peppers with my Bruschi. Put it on the Vrabel.

lmao....I would love to get Peppers

 

[Silverquick]

The fact that so many people are saying he takes plays off and is lazy bothers me. He is talented and physically gifted, no doubt, but BB isn't a big fan of guys who don't give their best on every single play.

As for Nnamdi, he has been developing over the years and really became a big-time corner a year ago. He is now 27 and in his prime. Oakland will be holding on to him though, its always helpful to have that kind of talent on the outside in a division that includes Jay Cutler and Philip Rivers.

 

[Larry Whigham]

The fact that so many people are saying he takes plays off and is lazy bothers me. He is talented and physically gifted, no doubt, but BB isn't a big fan of guys who don't give their best on every single play.

Seems to me they were saying the same thing about a certain receiver with the Raiders a few years ago.

 

[alvinnf]

Peppers sucks period>>>>>> Let me guess we should teach him to play olb, square peg.

 

[billdog3484]

There's a Mayo & Pepper joke here somewhere.... I'm just not smart enough to put it all together.

yah this defense definitely needs a little spice to it

 

[Rob0729]

Peppers wants to be one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. Giving up Cassel and paying him may be too much of a price for a guy who is unproven in the 3-4. He has the skill set to be an excellent 3-4 OLB, but having the skills and actually producing are two different things. I don't know if he can make the transition or not.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

It would be great to use Peppers on the pass rush. That's one area I hope we improve upon. We also lost a few LB's this year-but Julius Peppers is certainly a dominant force in the NFL and is still playing at a good level.

I would love to get Peppers but so wouldn't a bunch of other teams too.

 

[billdog3484]

yah as much as i would love to have him, hes very expensive

 

[mayoclinic]

Peppers wants to be one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. Giving up Cassel and paying him may be too much of a price for a guy who is unproven in the 3-4. He has the skill set to be an excellent 3-4 OLB, but having the skills and actually producing are two different things. I don't know if he can make the transition or not.

Peppers, along with Jared Allen, is one of the few DEs whom I would love to see try the switch to 3-4 OLB. At 6-7" 283# he seems too big, but he has amazing athleticism. I'd love to know whether it would work.

But realistically it aint going to happen, just as it didn't happebn with Allen. It's just too much $$ to spend on an uncertain conversion project. We could trade Cassell for a #1 in the 19-22 range and draft someone like Michael Johnson (kind of similar to Peppers), Aaron Maybin, or Paul Kruger (kind of similar to Allen), sign them for a fraction of the cost of signing Peppers, and the probability of success would likely be similar.

If BB saw saw something special in Peppers as a 3-4 OLB, and Peppers was willing to take a discount to go to a 3-4 team and "become all that he can be" then that would be different, but I think it's very unlikely.

 

[jsull87]

yeah he would be expensive but so will seymour. i would be extatic with a strait swap but i don't know how realistic any of this is. but in my ideal scenario they tag n trade like we will with cassel and we trade them seymour and a third or 4th and we sign peppers long term and they sign seymour long term

 

[ALP]

yeah he would be expensive but so will seymour. i would be extatic with a strait swap but i don't know how realistic any of this is. but in my ideal scenario they tag n trade like we will with cassel and we trade them seymour and a third or 4th and we sign peppers long term and they sign seymour long term

prob is, peppers wouldnt be able to play the role that seymour plays...and t/f we would have to pay (assuming we get peppers) another DE, if not seymour

 

[jsull87]

that is true. bottom line for me is i think an athlete like that can change any defence. even if we kept seymour the best point on this thread was look at what happened to the talented chargers secondary when merriman was out. now inject peppers into an already good defence. i think it would be very unlikley for us not to go deep into the playoffs next yr. (normal amount of injuries aside lol)