How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation [merged]

[slash83]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Nhamdi... no question about it. No doubt in my mind. He would be a sure thing in our defense. Peppers would not.

I agree with you Nhamdi's the best at his position.

 

[lamafist]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

I think the people talking about him "transitioning" to OLB haven't watched enough Panthers games. Jon Fox might like to a run a fairly straight-forward defense, but he knew enough to see that he had to take advantage of Peppers' athleticism and versatility.

While Peppers has spent the majority of his snaps as a pass-rusher lining up with his fist in the dirt, he's also been moved around a bit and rushed from a standing position on many, many occasions. He's also been used in coverage plenty, as he can backpedal faster than most TE's can run forwards. His coverage instincts are solid.

As a 4-3 DE he's got plenty of experience as a backside chase-down run defender, and is one of the better 4-3 DEs at point-of-attack run defense. The one area he might not have a ton of experience in is sealing off the edge when teams run wide, but his freakish speed and quickness will help him recover if he over-commits, and his amazing size, strength and wingspan should make him an ideal quick-shed player.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Now that is a really tough question. I really like both guys and would happy with either of them. But this is where the expertise of both BB and his scounting crew come in. If I were GM, I would go for pass rush because a heavy pass rush can make average guys in the secondary look good. Also, I would take Peppers because there doesn't appear to be any game changing pass rushers that the Pats can select with their pick in the draft. With Merriweather improving each game, this defense is about 2 to 3 players away from being one of the best in the game. Didn't BB really like Peppers coming out of the draft? I thought I heard something like that.

Agreed, I think a db will be easier to draft than someone like Peppers.
Look at Gholston.

 

[slash83]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Agreed, I think a db will be easier to draft than someone like Peppers.
Look at Gholston.

Lookin but cant seem to find the guy for some reason

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Lookin but cant seem to find the guy for some reason

LOL
I admit I was kind of into drafting Gholston. If he was available.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

LOL
I admit I was kind of into drafting Gholston. If he was available.

Same here. It's sad how bad the guy was this year. Paying all that money and he couldn't produce one sack.

 

[slash83]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

LOL
I admit I was kind of into drafting Gholston. If he was available.

So was I, shhhhhh....

 

[lamafist]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Heres a question, if you were the gm of the Pats who do you go after via trade, Nhamdi or Peppers?

As BB learned from Parcells, you build your team from the front to back, and from the inside out.

There's no point in having a great 2ndary if teams can run all over you, or passers have all day in the pocket. Also, while Asomugha is a year younger than Peppers, CBs start tailing off with age sooner than LBs tend to. At CB, you lose a little speed and some hip fluidity, and soon, you're a target for either the QB's passes, or the refs' flags.

 

[CrazyDave]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Which brings us back to the transition question.
Gholston had trouble, but he's very young.
If Peppers could make that transition, it would help us a lot.
Teams do not fear our pass rush, and that MUST change.
Peppers COULD be the guy to do just that.
We all saw what that guy from Pitt did to us.
He changed that game. Period.

 

[JSn]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

On the Gholston thing, it's possible that it's a coaching thing, too. I suspect he'd have been more productive here. Not enough to make the impact Mayo has/will, however, I don't think.

 

[Fencer]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

hes bigger and faster than a LOT of LBs in the league. and hes dropped back a decent amount of times. bring him in!

Come to think of it, any move that gets us slower at LB has to be viewed with great skepticism ...

 

[maseda17]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

How do you not do this trade straight up. Julius is EXCEPTIONAL in pass coverage. He is a top 5 defensive end in this league and would be a huge addition to this defense.

 

[Amazedbyitallin07]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Nhamdi... no question about it. No doubt in my mind. He would be a sure thing in our defense. Peppers would not.

Could you elaborate on why Nhamdi is such a sure thing?

IMHO, shutdown corners are going the way of the dinosaur. With 3-5 receivers being sent out on so many pass plays these days, I'm skeptical about how impactful a corner can be in today's NFL. I agree with the others who've said that an effective pass rush can make an average secondary good, and a good secondary great. Hence the Super Bowl rings on the fingers of Corey Webster, the corpse of Sam Madison, Kevin Dockery, James Butler, ect (Gibril Wilson was alright for them...)

I don't disagree that there are certain corners, like Asante, that have a nose for the ball and can capitalize on mistakes. But I'd bet that a fair amount of those payers' success stems from pressure on the quarterback (see: Eagles' pass rush).

I just don't see how there's "no doubt about" Nhamdi helping the defense more than Peppers in 2009.

 

[JoePats]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Anyone think we could get a first day pick along with him?
That would sure sweeten the deal.

I doubt we could even get Peppers for Cassel.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

Could you elaborate on why Nhamdi is such a sure thing?

IMHO, shutdown corners are going the way of the dinosaur. With 3-5 receivers being sent out on so many pass plays these days, I'm skeptical about how impactful a corner can be in today's NFL. I agree with the others who've said that an effective pass rush can make an average secondary good, and a good secondary great. Hence the Super Bowl rings on the fingers of Corey Webster, the corpse of Sam Madison, Kevin Dockery, James Butler, ect (Gibril Wilson was alright for them...)

I don't disagree that there are certain corners, like Asante, that have a nose for the ball and can capitalize on mistakes. But I'd bet that a fair amount of those payers' success stems from pressure on the quarterback (see: Eagles' pass rush).

I just don't see how there's "no doubt about" Nhamdi helping the defense more than Peppers in 2009.

You answered your own question. Even though shutdown corners are going "the way of the dinosaur", as you so eloquently put it, they can still be a powerful addition to your defense. Pass rush does have a lot to do with a cornerback's elite status but Nhamdi is still in a class all his own... at least this offseason. He is a shutdown cornerback, pure and simple. Look what he did on that Raiders defense then imagine what he could do on this one.

Peppers on the other hand, while he might be a good addition, it's not a sure fire thing or a lock by any stretch of the imagination. Too many questions would come with him: Do we only have to give them Cassel or would we have to give up draft picks? Would he fit in with Belichick's style of a 3-4? Is he smart enough to know his job? Can he set the edge and not just be a pure pass rusher? Can he help stuff outside runs? Would his coverage skills be effective in this sytem? I can honestly go on and on. So yes, Peppers could help. But, if it's between the two, I'd rather take a sure fire shut down cornerback than someone who could either be a good linebacker in this system or a one trick pony.

 

[Fencer]

Re: How about Cassel for Julius Peppers - My Speculation

I doubt we could even get Peppers for Cassel.

They are, amazingly, close in value. Just consider what a fair-market contract would be for each of them. And they're both up for the franchise tag, so their contractual situations are similar as well.

And Cassell has a bit of an edge in youth/mileage/the fact that QBs last longer than most other kinds of players.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Can this please be merged with one of the other five dozen trade matt cassel threads!

 

[CrazyDave]

Can this please be merged with one of the other five dozen trade matt cassel threads!

Hey, we're playing nice in here.
Don't be a square.

 

[GostkowSKI]

There's a Mayo & Pepper joke here somewhere.... I'm just not smart enough to put it all together.

 

[CrazyDave]

There's a Mayo & Pepper joke here somewhere.... I'm just not smart enough to put it all together.

You know, it seems to me that when some guys get to talking, eventually it gets to food.
If we got another guy with a food name, we could make up a clever nickname for the D.