How about a position by position breakdown of why the defense is struggling?

[Deus Irae]

It's clear that the defense is in trouble. Anyone denying that just needs to look at what BB's actions have been. So, with that in mind, I thought a thread breaking down the issues by position might be in order.

DT/DE
OLB/ILB
CB
S
Specialty spots (nickel, pass rush specialist, etc...)

So let's have at it...

 

[Aßßynormal]

I look at it as less of a talent problem and more a leadership and experience thing. Oh, and players not in sync with the philosophy (and need to go). The cure is some additional talent in the core but mostly time ...... it's not easy to be patient.

 

[mosslost]

The Defense for the most part is doing well.

 

[mosslost]

The Defense for the most part is doing well.

#1 Defense in AFC. # 3 in NFL behind Seattle and Vikings, just barely. And by the way, points against is how they rank great defenses.

 

[patsinthesnow]

1. No interior pass rushing DT
2. DE in flux
3. Lack of consistent CB2 play
4. Hightower & Chung not being used to their fullest
5. Conservative defensive philosophy

------------------------
1. Can't be fixed this season
2. I'd try Flowers and Van Noy next week vs. Jets. Might be our best combo
3. Can't be fixed but sticking to Ryan is the smart choice.
4. On the coaches
5. On the coaches

Enough can be fixed IMO to make this defense a solid one this season.

If Bucannon and Ward can play LB a good amount of the snaps why can't Chung, especially considering we also have Harmon at safety? (I'm aware run defense is sacrificed)

I want Hightower rushing the passer more often and Chung covering RBs/TEs.

 

[Deus Irae]

1. No interior pass rushing DT

Is that the only problem at DT, In your opinion? Is it just"Easley went bust, and they need to replace what he would have been"?

 

[Aßßynormal]

I don't agree it can't be fixed this year. Losing Branch will give Valentine and Brown the ability and playing time to start to step up (for example). We can get much better, still not as good as we thought in preseason but better. The thing is we have very little depth and must remain healthy from here on out.

 

[mosslost]

 

[mosslost]

I look at it as less of a talent problem and more a leadership and experience thing. Oh, and players not in sync with the philosophy (and need to go). The cure is some additional talent in the core but mostly time ...... it's not easy to be patient.

#1D in AFC, #3 in NFL

 

[Boomer B]

There has obviously been stuff going on behind the scenes this year with the D. In my opinion the Pats felt comfortable trading C. Jones because of Sheard's play last year and picking up C. Long. Sheard just hasn't been good and while Long gives an A+ effort, he's just not a great player any more. As a whole the D-Line has not been great, which has an effect on the secondary having to cover longer than they should.

Likely was the stuff going on in the locker room that led to the Collins trade, and no matter how he looked in some games this year, he is a very talented player. We better hope no injuries at LB or we are screwed with the lack of depth.

I believe there are 0 elite players on our D, and only 3 very good players: Hightower, Butler, and McCourty. The rest are all average to below average players. We need more talent via the draft and free agency next season. That being said, we still have time to correct issues and while this D isn't gonna be mentioned with the Seahawks or Bronco's we have enough to get by as long as both the coaches and players are on the same page and play to their abilities.

My grades:

DT/DE: C
OLB/ILB: B-
CB: C+
S: B-

 

[BobDigital]

Sure.

DE - There simply is no difference maker at this spot. The closest thing we have right now is Flowers. Sheard at times has been okay but he needs to get back into it. Nink is just okay and his age is showing some but he can still set the edge which Sheard generally does okay too. We simply lack pass rushing ability. Long occasionally makes a good play but barely above a JAG. Basically we have 4 rotational guys as of now which on the whole keeps it being better then it would be if we had no rotation but we lack that clear #1 guy.

DT - Brown has under performed this year. He isn't bad but just isn't good. Branch has been the best DT on the field on the whole but he isn't always consistent. Valentine provides a few nice players here and there but doesn't do much and needs more experience. No 4th guy worth mentioning. This unit again has no single stand up player to rely upon though Branch is the closest.

Overall the DL needs a talent injection and it is not like we have not spent picks here. Something to draft and get in FA.

LB - The Hightower show. He is very good but when he is off his game this unit has no one. Van Noy showed okay last game but Roberts has cooled off and McCellin/Mingo have not done much with their chances. Basically again need something here or one of Van Noy/Roberts to step up. At this point I would not expect it from McCellin/Mingo and certainly not Freeney.

CB - This unit gets a lot of crap but not justified always. Butler is of course the guy and he been playing at a probowl level the past few weeks again. It comes down to Rowe/Ryan. They have good and bad stretches but in the end Coleman/Jones won't help this year or at all. We just need to keep Rowe/Ryan in and hope for the best. At times they can both be good.

S - Usually a very good unit but just not a play making unit. Chung is on a bad streak right now but i think he will right it. This unit of McCourty/Harmon/Chung however can only slow down the losing usually and not make a play to help us win.

Basically it comes down to the CBs playing up to what they can and hoping the talent on the DL (Sheard, Brown, Valentine, Flowers) matures or plays up.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Is that the only problem at DT, In your opinion? Is it just"Easley went bust, and they need to replace what he would have been"?

Not completely sure but I lean that way. Branch & Brown to me seem like solid DTs. Bedard said today that Brown hasn't been that good so I'm not sure.

Brown is 22 and flashed enough that I'm confident he'll keep developing. Branch is solid & Valentine is developing underneath them. We need what Easley was suppose to give us.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not completely sure but I lean that way. Branch & Brown to me seem like solid DTs. Bedard said today that Brown hasn't been that good so I'm not sure.

Brown is 22 and flashed enough that I'm confident he'll keep developing. Branch is solid & Valentine is developing underneath them. We need what Easley was suppose to give us.

I don't want to interject too much, this early in the thread, so I'll try to limit my opinions for now (doubtless to the joy of many ). I will say that I've called Brown more of a Ty Warren type than a Vince Wilfork or Richard Seymour type. I still think that's a fair call with him.

 

[Deus Irae]

DE - There simply is no difference maker at this spot. The closest thing we have right now is Flowers. Sheard at times has been okay but he needs to get back into it. Nink is just okay and his age is showing some but he can still set the edge which Sheard generally does okay too. We simply lack pass rushing ability. Long occasionally makes a good play but barely above a JAG. Basically we have 4 rotational guys as of now which on the whole keeps it being better then it would be if we had no rotation but we lack that clear #1 guy.

How much of this problem do you figure is tied to the two major Ninkovich injuries, how much do you figure is Sheard stinking up the joint, and how much do you figure is disappointment from Elsewhere?

In other words (just one example), is the problem really the failure of Chris Long to be something most people weren't expecting him to be (Most thought his best days were behind him, especially as a pass rusher)? Has the loss of Jones been the primary issue? Is the lack of interior pass rush (a/k/a DTs and LBs) making it too easy for teams to adjust to the DEs?

 

[Aßßynormal]

Flowers and Valentine both have high ceilings and need time to develop. Butler and McCourty are nearly there. Hightower is on an island now (at least for the remainder of the season), he'll need to take over the defense as Mayo once did.

We need to replace the "core" players who didn't work out (Jones, Collins, Sheard and to a lesser extent Ryan, Easley). We've taken a step back with the failure of those players to give out what was needed. Where the need is "leadership and experience" first and talent second.

 

[Aßßynormal]

#1D in AFC, #3 in NFL

Against average offenses and okay QBs. We have a problem with the Defense, it'll get unmasked in the playoffs. We need to improve, especially so we can start scheming to create pressure.

 

[RIpats88]

not sure how good/bad the 49ers line is. but we did have something like 5 sacks last game. so they did seem to be getting after the QB more and patricia seemed to go with a more attacking approach.

I think our CB's just play better in man coverage. this is largely the same unit as last year in the secondary so I dont see why they are playing these soft zones. and as we saw last week, ryan is much better in man coverage. Rowe is coming along as well

 

[patfanken]

Interesting thread. I had to do some driving today so I caught a bit of talk radio this morning and accidently stumbled upon some actual information from Christian Fauria. He stated he went back to the all 22 and focused into Sheard's play in the 2 game before his healthy scratch, and confirmed what BB has been saying, in that Sheard has made fundemental errors that have left his teammates out to dry. Things like hitting with the wrong shoulder and not keeping his outside shoulder and legs free, and the lack of "setting the edge".

What I found interesting was that Fauria acknowledged that there ARE times when players are free to "freelance" and take a shot at making a big play. But you do that when you know you have some back up and you are not creating huge gaps that can't be covered in the scheme.

Fauria continued that it showed up over and over again with Sheard. He felt it wasn't necessarily a lack of effort, but a lack of focus and attention to detail.

Of course after that Merloni and Ordway both tried to stir the pot by speculating WHY he doesn't have that focus and fundementals by insinuating that it is all contract or related.....at which point I figured the good stuff was over and turned it off.

But I did feel lucky to get to listen to a solid 5 minutes of informative talk radio. Or in other words I got the best 5 minutes of a 4 hour show, and only had to listen to 6 minutes.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

We've played an awful lot of mobile QBs, so that distorts the picture some. Pass rush obviously harder against them and so we have elected to play more passively and conservatively. Nink not back to his old self - either age or rust. Don't have the one-on-one pass rushers so will need to scheme more - safety blitzes and the like. But I think there will be enough there for an adequate rush.

Biggest problem has been covering wheel routes and crossing patterns and inconsistent run defense.

Don't yet have a Collins replacement, and maybe none to be found on the roster. So Belichick will have to adapt - perhaps play McCourty and Chung closer to the line and leave Harmon back at free safety.

Right now Belichick is still experimenting - expect that to continue for the next few games - still quite a few new combinations possible here. When Hightower is off the field the LBs seem clueless - just lack of experience I think. And it's not like Hightower played so well this last game either. If we see a bunch of McClellin again off-the-line next time up it must mean Belichick thinks there is something there.

Not worried about CB or safeties.

Simply been unlucky on turnovers. Nothing to be done about that but wait for their luck to change. At some point the forced fumbles will lead to turnovers.

 

[BobDigital]

How much of this problem do you figure is tied to the two major Ninkovich injuries, how much do you figure is Sheard stinking up the joint, and how much do you figure is disappointment from Elsewhere?

In other words (just one example), is the problem really the failure of Chris Long to be something most people weren't expecting him to be (Most thought his best days were behind him, especially as a pass rusher)? Has the loss of Jones been the primary issue? Is the lack of interior pass rush (a/k/a DTs and LBs) making it too easy for teams to adjust to the DEs?

I think it is a bit of everything. Lets not crown Chandler Jones something he was not. He was pretty good but highly inconsistent and never really took over a game. He would have a few pretty good games then not show up for long stretches. Would we be better off with him? Yes we would but it is not like he was ever anything much better than what we had and it would only make it a little better. Sheard stinking it up is the single biggest issue as he was down right nasty at times last year but that has not shown up at all this year.

The DTs is just missing on draft picks so far. Brown hasn't made the jump we hoped and Easley was a bust. It was not like they didn't try.