Honest Assessment of AFC East

[MoLewisrocks]

I would like to add you have to take what a teams D does during a season has a big effect on what an O does in a season. In other words if a team has D that give up lots of points, then that teams O is always playing from behind. Therefore your O plays change, you are no longer allowed to run a balanced attack because more often then not you are playing catchup. In 2004 Dauntes best season as a pro QB he had a horrible D. The team finished 8-8, but still made the playoffs. Daunte had 39 TD's and 11 int's he was just shy of having an MVP season. He played that season with a D that was ranked 27th overall. That has a huge effect on what an O has to do to keep up. Whens the last time Brady played on a team in the NFL that had a D ranked outside the top 10??

Do you actually watch football. 2005 comes to mind when Brady carried a 27th ranked D to a 10-6 (or again 11-5 had we wanted it) record and division win and the second round of the playoffs. Not to mention 2001 when we won the first Superbowl with a defense that barely ranked in the top 20 carrying our system QB on it's back....

You also failed to note that the earlier assessment of his skill set had Daunte poised for another MVP season in Minnesota in 2005. So how was that working out before the knee blew out? And that comment about how perhaps Randy was not good for Daunte as there was potentially some I'll show you bs interfering with Daunte's performance - now that's leadership. Please......

And the could Brady have won with straw man argument is juvenile. No he likely couldn't have won 3 superbowls in 4 years with SF, though neither could Montana in their heyday, although they likely would have at least doubled their winning percentage out of the gate in the last 5 years with either of those two behind center. But I have no doubt that Indy, Pittsburgh (who also passed on Tom for some schmuck who has not been heard from since) or Carolina, or Seattle, or Denver or even Detroit or the JETS, Dallas or Philly, or Cincy or a whole host of teams might have at least one more Lombardi in their foyer today than they currently do (and yes, that means at least 2 in Pittsburgh). And I don't believe that Manning, or Ben, or Jake (although he might have won one here), or Hasselbeck (although he might have one now too) or Plummer or Harrington or Palmer (who needed a couple of years to blossom) or McNabb or Culpepper would have any had they been playing in Foxboro for the last few seasons because most of them don't havt IT and others will find a way to choke the life out of a playoff regardless of the talent that surrounds them.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Whens the last time Brady played on a team in the NFL that had a D ranked outside the top 10??

2001, Pats Defense Ranked 24th

2003 Pats Rushing offense ranked 27th.

 

[VJCPatriot]

1) Carson Palmer
2) Ben Roethlisberger
3) Donavan McNabb
4) Drew Brees
5) Trent Green
6) Steve McNair
7) Marc Bolger
8) Brad Johnson
9) Bret Favre
10) Peyton Manning
11)Jake Plummer
12) Jake Delhome
13)Byron Leftwich
14)Daunte Culpepper
15)Matt Hasselbeck

This list is laughable. Yeah and these same QBs would have won 3 superbowls for the 49ers right. It was 'just the system'. Joe Montana was just a real lucky system QB. You're blowing hot air out your arse.

The only Qb's up there that could conceivably win ONE championship for the Pats are:
Big Ben, but who knows if he will ever recover from that terrible motorcycle crash
Favre, if he were in his prime which he is no longer
Mcnair, one of the toughest QBs in the NFL and has gotten his Titans close several times but came up short against a great Rams offensive team, probably doesn't have much left in the tank these days

The ones on the bubble struggling to prove that they are more than just regular season QBs are:
Manning and Mcnabb, but their epic chokes in the postseason are well documented.

I am willing to admit of these 5, they MIGHT have had a chance to win ONE superbowl ring. But 3? You're just fooling yourself.

You can try to make this a pissing contest between Culpepper and Brady all you want but fact of the matter is that Tommy boy has been there and done that. You can make as many hypothetical cases as you want but that's exactly what they are hypotheticals based on fantasy conjectures. And guess what this is real life pal not fantasy football.

So go ahead and play your fantasy league and congratulate yourself when you win. But your discussions when applied to REAL football have no basis in fact.

Bottom line.
Culpepper - done squat with world class offensive talent.
Brady - won 3 rings with mediocre to slightly above average offensive talent.
Dolphins chances of making the playoffs in 2006 - 50/50.

Prove me wrong boyo.

 

[Tyler Faith]

Short of anything disasterous happening to any of the keys (Brady, Bruschi, Seymour, Vrabel, Colvin, etc.) I still like the Pats to rule the division this year.

It's not the STARS I'm worried about. I like the Pats to rule the division if the lines stay healthy and the scattered, fairly new assorted 2nd Team learns the ropes and gets in the groove like the 1st Team.

For Miami, A healthy Culpepper shouldn't be counted out. The guy's good. He had one bad start to a season on a team he lost hope in, then jumped to injured reserve. He was a major player the previous years. A back up in Harrington is still better then any Miami starter over the last 5 years.

But they also have line concerns. Ronnie Brown has NEVER carried the whole load at any level of play. There's no doubt he has potential but lets see how is body handles 20-25 carries, instead of 5-15. And like someone else pointed out, if he's out for even a half, Miami's got NOTHING behind them.

Chambers with a strong line and a healthy Culpepper will be dangerous as well as TE McMichael. Booker is good for 1st downs and there's still a few guys on D who can make some plays.

I think based on their schedule and misguided confidence, they'll probably do okay and possibly get to the playoffs. But their lack of experience and their "not yet" make up will probably see them eliminated first round.

I agree with many of you. They're at least a year away (with perfect drafting, pick ups and coaching) from being contenders.

Pats 12-4
Phins 11-5
Bills 6-10
Jets 4-12

 

[Jacky Roberts]

It's not the STARS I'm worried about. I like the Pats to rule the division if the lines stay healthy and the scattered, fairly new assorted 2nd Team learns the ropes and gets in the groove like the 1st Team.

For Miami, A healthy Culpepper shouldn't be counted out. The guy's good. He had one bad start to a season on a team he lost hope in, then jumped to injured reserve. He was a major player the previous years. A back up in Harrington is still better then any Miami starter over the last 5 years.

But they also have line concerns. Ronnie Brown has NEVER carried the whole load at any level of play. There's no doubt he has potential but lets see how is body handles 20-25 carries, instead of 5-15. And like someone else pointed out, if he's out for even a half, Miami's got NOTHING behind them.

Chambers with a strong line and a healthy Culpepper will be dangerous as well as TE McMichael. Booker is good for 1st downs and there's still a few guys on D who can make some plays.

I think based on their schedule and misguided confidence, they'll probably do okay and possibly get to the playoffs. But their lack of experience and their "not yet" make up will probably see them eliminated first round.

I agree with many of you. They're at least a year away (with perfect drafting, pick ups and coaching) from being contenders.

Pats 12-4
Phins 11-5
Bills 6-10
Jets 4-12

Hi Tyler

I think the Dolphins will take a step backwards, even with Culpepper.

Patriots 13-3
Dolphins 9-7
Bills 6-10
Jets 6-10

ps- When are you coming to the Bistro?

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

'feel the pain':

1) The 2001 Pats WERE this year's 49ers or Saints. They sucked and were a 5-11 team the year before. Drew put them two games in the hole before Brady went on to win 14 and lose three.

2) The Pats Defense in the last five years has averaged to be very mediocre. The only positive note has been 'points allowed' in 2003-2004. They stunk in 2001, were about 30th place in 2002, were 9th over all in 2003, not much better in 2004, and almost last place again in 2005. Yes, they limited points in 2003-2004, but not yards, or any other stat.

3) Just one example of a team Brady could have won FIVE superbowls with: The Steelers. Led every statistic you could think of this whole time, on Defense. #1 this, #1 that. 2001-2005. FAR SUPERIOR RUNNING GAME, except perhaps 2004. Hines Ward could wipe his butt with Deion Branch's regular season stats, and even more so if he had Brady. Not even close. The 'Bus' or Antowain Smith, you choose.

Another Example: Miami 2001-2005. Wanny would still be the head coach, and he'd be a big genius. Ricky Williams would want to be part of a team with a couple superbowls, instead of being a hippie. And some nut would come on your website and say, Jay Fiedler and all these 14 other guys could have done what Brady did. Miami: better defense most years, far better running game, home field advantage, skill at offense positions.

By the way, I think Culpepper will pull a 'Drew Bledsoe goes to Buffalo.'

He'll start strong, put up numbers, go to the ProBowl, be another huge Miami media success story, and suck when it counts.

I bet they even beat the Pats once this year!

 

[feelthepain]

By the way, I think Culpepper will pull a 'Drew Bledsoe goes to Buffalo.'

He'll start strong, put up numbers, go to the ProBowl, be another huge Miami media success story, and suck when it counts.

I bet they even beat the Pats once this year!

Whats left to say here?? The Pats win the SB and it's all because of Brady! I can't continue to discuss this division because everyone in the world knows Brady will beat every team he faces all by himself. Every team in the league can upgrade all they want. Coaches, players it doesn't matter because Brady is Brady and he is just better then every team in the league...all by himself.
I really don't know why teams even bother going to camp, I'm sure every camp is the same, all they talk about is Brady and how he will win the SB alone. Do you think BB may just keep all but Brady on the sidlenes this year and just lineup 1 Brady against the other teams 11 and the same on D?? Why not?? Brady doesn't need an Oline, RB's, WR's or D or ST! All the Pats need is Brady to win the SB. How many SB's will Brady win the second half of the decade 4 - 5??? It must be tough being a Pat fan , you guys and your psychic powers are incredible.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Whats left to say here?? The Pats win the SB and it's all because of Brady! I can't continue to discuss this division because everyone in the world knows Brady will beat every team he faces all by himself. Every team in the league can upgrade all they want. Coaches, players it doesn't matter because Brady is Brady and he is just better then every team in the league...all by himself.
I really don't know why teams even bother going to camp, I'm sure every camp is the same, all they talk about is Brady and how he will win the SB alone. Do you think BB may just keep all but Brady on the sidlenes this year and just lineup 1 Brady against the other teams 11 and the same on D?? Why not?? Brady doesn't need an Oline, RB's, WR's or D or ST! All the Pats need is Brady to win the SB. How many SB's will Brady win the second half of the decade 4 - 5??? It must be tough being a Pat fan , you guys and your psychic powers are incredible.

I just dont think the Dolphins are a better team than last year. The most overrated thing last year was Miami's late winning streak. You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment if you think Miami can win this division.

ps- Funny that you attack Brady considering Miami fans in the late 80s thought they were the better team every year because of their quarterback. Hmm...

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

'feel the pain':

I just gave you the facts. You look up the stats on the Pats D and compare it to Miami or the Steelers, in every category, and draw your own conclusions. You look up the running game stats for Miami, Steelers and Pats these last few years. I didn't invent the stats.

So yeah, Brady could have done okay on those teams.

On the two years Brady didn't win the superbowl, he had the most touchdowns and then the most yards in that season. In other words, he was not the problem.

Sorry if we are wearing you out, but if you come on a Pats website and claim that we would do just as well with Byron Leftwich, you are in for a long discussion.

 

[feelthepain]

I just dont think the Dolphins are a better team than last year. The most overrated thing last year was Miami's late winning streak. You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment if you think Miami can win this division.

ps- Funny that you attack Brady considering Miami fans in the late 80s thought they were the better team every year because of their quarterback. Hmm...

I would like to know why you don't think the Fins are better. We got younger and faster added a franchise QB and two former HC's that are proven winners as O and D coordinators. Saban is going into his second season and the team is buying into the system. How in the world do you come to the conclusion we are worse?? The Pats lose several key players more so then in years past, but they will get better?? Don't you see how much of a homer you sound like??

Not one realistic Dolphin fan that I've seen here is saying the Pats are done and won't compete for the division, but most Pat fans think the Fins will be worse and give them little respect. Seems like most Pat fans have delusions of grandeur. Teams cycle, it's the nature of the beast.

 

[feelthepain]

'feel the pain':On the two years Brady didn't win the superbowl, he had the most touchdowns and then the most yards in that season. In other words, he was not the problem.

"Brady didn't win the SB"....Wow, you can't see a problem with Pat fans mindset here?? "Brady" didn't win those SB's because Brady is just one player. It doesn't matter what numbers he puts up, he can't win it all, by himself. I think Marino epitomizes that statement. You just can't get that through your head. Not once in any post have I not given Brady respect or said he didn't do his part.

All I've ever said is that Brady is only part of the success of the Pats. He puts up good numbers because others are doing their part to give him the chance to post those numbers. You also disrespect everyone but Brady. How can you do that?? How can you be such a huge Pats fan and not realize the total team effort that won three SB's in four years??? It seems as though you don't grasp how difficult it is to win one SB, much less 3 in 4 years. Brady is a good QB but the system in NE is so good that "yes" any of the QB's on my list of 15 would have had the same results with the Pats that Brady did. The individual QB stats may be different, but the outcome (which is the bottom line) would be the same because the system works. The Ravens had arguably the best D to ever play in a single season and they won "A" SB!! But they couldn't repeat because they didn't have the O to compliment their D. Teams figure out ways to beat your strength, unless your system is so good that it's unbeatable. Thats where the Pats have been.

 

[CrazyDave]

Oh Christ, another "it's the system" guy.

 

[feelthepain]

Oh Christ, another "it's the system" guy.

I guess you think Brady is a better QB then Marino, right??

 

[SunnyDenmark]

Oh Christ, another "it's the system" guy.

He doesn't understand what an MVP stands for. He acknowledges what a great TEAM we have (even though he overrates our D and WR's). Maybe someone should explain to him that a MVP (no less a Super Bowl MVP) means that it is the best player on the team. Great team + best player on the team = must be a really really great player. No less than twice SB MVP (most pressure filled game in a persons career playing against the best team of the other conference). Plus serious consideration for league wide MVP last year. Maybe I should also point out that..........Oh ---why bother. I'm just wasting my breath. If he held a diamond in his hand - he would probably say, "pretty piece of glass - but I have 15 other marbles at home that are just as nice".

 

[CrazyDave]

I guess you think Brady is a better QB then Marino, right??

Well, I'm not going to get into that. I saw Marino play quite a bit, and he was great. But you yourself mentioned the two of them in the same sentence.
Brady is still quite young. And arguably the best of his "generation".
But that's another discussion. When you say NE would have won with any schlep at QB , it sounds silly.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I guess you think Brady is a better QB then Marino, right??

I do.

Here's why...

The Marino Mythology

Marino not among greatest ever

 

[mgteich]

It sounds silly because it is silly.

Well, I'm not going to get into that. I saw Marino play quite a bit, and he was great. But you yourself mentioned the two of them in the same sentence.
Brady is still quite young. And arguably the best of his "generation".
But that's another discussion. When you say NE would have won with any schlep at QB , it sounds silly.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

I would like to know why you don't think the Fins are better. We got younger and faster added a franchise QB and two former HC's that are proven winners as O and D coordinators. Saban is going into his second season and the team is buying into the system. How in the world do you come to the conclusion we are worse?? The Pats lose several key players more so then in years past, but they will get better?? Don't you see how much of a homer you sound like??

Not one realistic Dolphin fan that I've seen here is saying the Pats are done and won't compete for the division, but most Pat fans think the Fins will be worse and give them little respect. Seems like most Pat fans have delusions of grandeur. Teams cycle, it's the nature of the beast.

Miami has no offensive line to speak of and a huge question mark at QB. I see Miami going 9-7 at best. Sure, teams cycle, you're right, but the Patriots have a HOF QB in his prime, and the youngest and most talented defensive line in the NFL. Oh yeah, they also have the best coach in the NFL, too. I think Miami will finish second, but probably at least 2 games behind NE.

ps- You are calling me a homer? Saban has never done a thing in the NFL and now Miami has a broken down QB who can't win a big game. Pot, kettle...

 

[Jacky Roberts]

I guess you think Brady is a better QB then Marino, right??

That all depends. Do you think Marino was better than Montana? Marino is last generation's Manning and Brady is this generation's Montana. Given a choice, I'm taking the guy with the rings and it ain't Marino.

 

[PF1996]

SPECIFICALLY WHAT has Miami added to the team

that would support a high probability of a better team in 2006?

Let's look at the significant (i.e. much ballyhooed) additions.

Culpepper - definitely an upgrade over Ferrote but can only perform at a Pro-Bowl level when surrounded by elite performing offensive talent (i.e. good Oline production, very good running game, physically skilled receivers) and facing poor defenses. The schedule, if the teams perform according to their 2005 records, should provide the latter. There are questions as to the former.

can R. Brown handle role as a full-time back without a good change of pace back-up?

can R. Brown produce against better defenses?

can Chambers duplicate R. Moss?

Coordinators...

Firstly, both of these coaches failed at their most recent gigs which demonstrates that having a good coach doesn't automatically improve a team's performance. So, the implication by "feeling the pain" that the additions of Mularky and Capers is evidence that the Dolphins are destined for improvement is not supportable. There's then the question as to whether Mularkly can run Linehan's system successfully.

There's also the question as to what kind of performance the Dolphins' defense will produce. They were a middling defensive team in 2005 despite not playing many offensive firepowers (giving up 20 or more points in 11 games....giving up a > 4.0 ypa in the running game). They have not added any significant impact players on defense, having jettisoned one of the players responsible for their 2004 n.2 pass D. There's youth in their linebackers and secondary but this youth is largely unproven..(i.e. there's not a history of Pro-Bowl quality play) so one cannot predict improvement simply because of that youth.

If all questions (these are just a few) are answered positively, can the Dolphins improve? Most definitely. However, there's no basis for making the presumption that all or the majority of the Dolphin's rookies will play at a Pro-Bowl level, that the players who were on the team in 2005 and produced a middling performance are suddenly all going to play at a Pro-Bowl level...etc...etc. The Patriots had a lot of changes. They got younger and faster...yet the media at large is suggesting that the Patriots will fail due to the loss of OLDER players. They're suggesting this not only due to general anti-Patriots bias but also because one cannot presume that unproven young players will perform at a Pro-Bowl level simply because they are younger and faster than their predecessors.

I see nothing in what the Dolphins have done this offseason that makes me concerned, as a Patriots fan. I'm more worried about Indy (the Manning adulation would never end) and Pittsburgh (repeating..yuck) than I am about the Dolphins.