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Honda's Clarity FCX & Home Hydrogen Fueling Station for 2008

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Is the future of hydrogen fuel closer than we think? I've been extremely interested in the potential of hydrogen based fuel. I think it's can be a huge help to our energy problems. GM, and as illustrated here with Honda, have been at the forefront of the push to bring the technology to market. Recent break throughs have sped up the process, and now Honda is going to offer their Clarity FCX model to Californians as soon as next year. Even better, it seems that Honda has developed a home fueling system that not serves the vehicle, but heats and power the home.


    News & Features November 27, 2007, 1:31PM EST

    Honda's Home Hydrogen Fueling Station

    Honda has come up with a way to get around the problem of fueling its hydrogen cars—do it at home

    [​IMG]
    Honda FCX Clarity

    It seems Honda is gearing up to be the one of the first major companies to bring a hydrogen fuel cell car to market -- their FCX Clarity is set to go to production in 2008, in a move they're hoping will break the catch-22 dilemma stopping motor companies from producing cars because there's no hydrogen distribution, and stopping fuel companies from distributing hydrogen because there's no cars that use it. To nurse consumers through the infancy of the hydrogen economy, Honda's also attempting to decentralize the production of hydrogen through their Home Energy Station unit, which sits outside your house and reforms natural gas to produce enough Hydrogen to power both the car and the home's energy needs at around 50% of the normal cost and with a 30% emissions reduction.

    ..................

    The FCX clarity boasts a number of improvements over the current FCX prototype, including:

    • a 20-percent increase in fuel economy - to the approximate equivalent of 68 mpg2 combined fuel economy (about 2-3 times the fuel economy of a gasoline-powered car, and 1.5 times that of a gasoline-electric hybrid vehicle, of comparable size and performance);

    • a 30-percent increase in vehicle range - to 270 miles;

    • a 25-percent improvement in power-to-weight ratio, in part from an approximate 400-pound reduction in the fuel cell powertrain weight, for superior performance and efficiency despite a substantial increase in overall vehicle size;

    • a 45-percent reduction in the size of the fuel cell powertrain - nearly equivalent, in terms of volume, to a modern gas-electric hybrid powertrain;

    • an advanced new lithium-ion battery pack that is 40 percent lighter and 50 percent smaller than the current-generation FCX's ultra-capacitor; and

    • a single 5,000-psi hydrogen storage tank with 10 percent additional hydrogen capacity than the previous model.

    .....................

    The Home Energy Station IV can reduce both cost and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions for the consumer. Compared to the average U.S. consumer's home with grid-supplied electricity and a gasoline-powered car, a home using Home Energy Station IV to help produce heat and electricity and also to refuel an FCX Clarity can reduce CO2 emissions by an estimated 30 percent and energy costs by an estimated 50 percent.

    ............

    The natural gas is reformed to produce hydrogen, which is then run directly through to a fuel cell stack to generate electricity for the home and enough heat to run the hot water supply. When immediate consumption is not needed, the hydrogen is refined, compressed and stored in a large tank for later use, or to fill a hydrogen car like the FCX Clarity.


    http://www.businessweek.com/autos/c...9.htm?chan=autos_autos index page_top stories
     
  2. everlong

    everlong Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #12 Jersey

    I was checking these out the other day and if they had them in MA I would go test drive one. My only concern would be pickup. I'm not willing to drive like my great aunt.
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ironically the byproduct of burning Hydrogen is H2O, whichis a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, but it will make everyone feel better.
     
  4. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Sooner or later, they are going to solve this. And what AMerica whould do, is immeadiatley place a ban on the export of this technology to the OPEC nations!!!!

    As soon as they make a car that runs the same, or even slightly less, on an alternative (less expensive) fule, America will embrace it.
     
  5. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    More potent since it is present at a much higher level, right? Also, isn't the big difference that the hydrogen used to run the car is produced from water (by hydrolysis), so the net result is no change in atmospheric H2O, whereas with gas-powered cars, we are liberating CO2 from the reaction of O2 and hydrocarbons, resulting in a net increase in atmospheric CO2?

    One more question, what about the fact that we still need massive amounts of power to generate the hydrogen from H2O? Won't that mean we're still using large amounts of fossil fuels to generate H? That part is never clear to me.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure, you'd need a sizable energy source, but that energy can be provided in a number of different ways. Hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, natural gas, oil, coal, etc...Also, that energy would eliminate the need for gasoline at the same time.
     
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's very important. The redidual pollution (NOT related to global-warming gasses) of gasoline production, transportation and storage are extremely destructive to the environment below our feet. I made a living mitigating and remediating sub-surface hazardous sites contaminated by gasoline. I met many families made sick by MTBE, benzene, and other VOC's from contaminated aquifers and soil. I've seen property destroyed and lives ruined because of gasoline. Good riddance, gas.
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Correct about the energy required to extract the hydrogen.


    The 2nd law of thermodymnamics tells us that we will expend more energy extracting the hydrogen that we will realize when we burn the hydrogen, so what about the energy footprint involved in powering the hydrolisis process?

    You have hit the nail on the head, there is no such thing as a free lunch (other than the sun which is burning it's fuel for 'free' for the next few billion years.
     
  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Remember when you made fun of me for a spelling error in one of my posts...? I gladly admit that I make spelling errors all the time... but looking foolish when you make them youself after criticizing someone else is just one "redidual" effect of your actions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  10. jack

    jack 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Are you ok?
     
  11. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    This question reminds me of a phrase my company was forced to chant way back in boot camp: "It's not OK to say OK!! It's not OK to say OK!!" :D
     
  12. jack

    jack 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Seriously.
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    No...that was QuiGon, I thought.
    Oh, wait. I forgot. You're schizophrenic.
    Jeeziz H, man. Quit your whining!
    This has nothing to do with you. It's about science and reason. Go back to Tatooine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2007
  14. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    So, why would you want to give up on oil?

    We will never run out of the stuff... unless you plan on living a million more years.

    There is no energy problems... I have MANY family members that are in the oil biz. They laugh their ass off when people talk about the "energy crisis..." Did you ever hear of a marketing ploy called scarcity? This is exactly what the big boys are playing on.

    It's still the cheapest way to run the world.

    And it isn't ruining anything.

    You people are so funny... you're playing right into their hands. You don't even know it either.

    Footprint. I'll give them my footprint. Right in their ass...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2007
  15. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    Terry, the farmers that are drooling thinking about the $5 per ear of corn they're going to get for making ethanol instead of using fossil fuels are going to be mighty pissed with you when they read that!:D
     
  16. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    I'm in the ag area... so I know all about it.

    Corn is all about Monsanto and their gm BS. They OWN the world's food supply already. Monsanto is VERY evil...

    It's all about raising the floor price of commodities. Driving more of a wedge between the middle and the higher class.

    Ethanol sucks for economy, sucks for power (in your vehicle), and it greatly lowers the longevity for the life of your motor (much higher wear on your motor).

    Oh yeah, and it's more harmful for the atmosphere as well. Do the research on it.

    It's basically all about more taxes, and higher prices on everything...
     
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I don't worry about the planet running out of oil, but the problem is that oil is disproportionately in the control of our planet's most backwards savages. And no, I am not talking about Texans.

    Yes, ethanol would be an expense. But I don't think people fully realize how expensive it is to buy cheap oil.
     
  18. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    Are you meaning expensive because of the current war? If that was your point, then I DO agree.

    Ethanol will be taxed for something... this much I do know. Corn takes so much water to make a good crop, that the water supply will greatly diminish as well, so that is yet another expense.

    The big problem with this whole energy thing is... the people who will provide the fuel.

    I would have to think that we would all agree to this one.

    Uncle Slam will always find his way into our wallets... bottom line.
     
  19. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    We already have many different ways for cheap energy.

    Just look at Nikoli Tesla. This should make my point all that much more relevant.

    He made free energy for all of us, yet our own government stamped him and other pioneers out, ruining their lives. Greedy MF'ers.

    SICK... VERY SICK...
     
  20. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Is that the guy who wants to install some wind turbines 5 miles out of Nantucket, completely unviewable from the shoreline..? Yeah, Uncle Teddy sure put the clamp down on him. :D
     

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