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Honda & Hydrogen = Future looks bright

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The advances with Hydrogen cells are becoming very fruitfull. It seems that Honda has made some break throughs in respect to previous problem area's such as cell size, weight, and cold weather starts. I'm a firm believer that Hydrogen is the way to go. Clean & cheap, it could solve a multitude of problems the planet faces, nevermind our own.

    Here are some excerpts:

    [​IMG]

    Hydrogen Wonder

    By SAM ABUELSAMID | AUTOBLOGGREEN.COM

    The end result is a power generation unit that has a power/volume density ratio 50 percent higher than the previous generation introduced in 2003 and a 67 percent improvement in power/weight ratio. Compared to the unit from 1999 those numbers are up by a factor of four. So they now have a stack that is small enough and powerful enough to fit upright in the center tunnel of the car.

    The fuel cell power-plant is 400 lbs lighter than the unit in the 2005 model. One of the pitfalls of previous fuel cells has been cold-weather start up performance. The Ford Focus FCV that was recently evaluated here needed to be kept above 40 degrees Fahrenheit to start. The 2006 FCX can start up at -4F and the new car with the vertical V Flow fuel cell stack can start-up at -22F. The current model also uses an ultracapacitor instead of a battery. The new version is equipped with a newly designed lithium-ion battery pack to supply supplemental power and also to run the air compressor necessary to get the fuel cell started. The battery is 40 percent lighter and 43 percent smaller in volume than the ultracapacitor while having much more power capacity.

    For fuel storage, the new car replaces the two smaller hydrogen cylinders of the current car with a single larger capacity tank. Capacity of the tank is now 4kg (8.8 lbs) of hydrogen gas at 5000 psi. The combination of increased fuel capacity and more efficient powertrain yields a thirty percent improvement in range compared to the 2006 model. The current car goes 210 miles on the EPA combined test mode while the new one goes 270 miles and is expected to improve even more by the time production starts in 2008.


    http://autos.aol.com/article/hybrid/hub/_a/hydrogen-wonder/20061226123209990001
  2. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I like hydrogen, the only thing that scares me (and maybe it's not true, but it's what I've heard) is that if you get into an accident and rupture your fuel cell, you could take out half a city block.
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That's not true. It's not a bomb.
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Why not? You're talking about something with a very high energy density. Either that energy gets released over time in a controlled process, or it gets released all at once in an uncontrolled process.

    I'd use the analogy of nuclear fission: it can happen in a reactor to provide steady power, or it can happen in a bomb to provide instant, destructive power.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid536.php

    I don't think the giant auto manufacturers would invest tens of billions of dollars into Hydrogen vehicles if they were going to explode and exterminate half a city block. Do you? Think of the liability involved. Don't think Hydrogen bomb, and Ford Focus in the same sentence. Furthermore, how many gasoline powered vehicles explode in accidents? Safety is usually a determining factor when billions of dollars of R&D costs are about to be put forth.

    http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid536.php
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, ot an energy source. You have to expend energy converting water to H + O, how do you do that nuke? or coal?
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Hydrogen can be seperated from natural gas with an 80% efficiency, and from other hydrocarbons with slightly less efficiency.

    Algae can also be used to produce hydrogen in something called an algae bioreactor.

    For high temperature electrolysis (what you were talking about), nuclear power would probably be the only efficient system.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patsfan13

    Hydrogen is an energy storage medium, ot an energy source. You have to expend energy converting water to H + O, how do you do that nuke? or coal?


    Um......


    [​IMG]
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    LMFAO!
    I have some friends in Iceland, where the government has been committed to total vehicle hydrogen power conversion for five years. Fortunately for them, they have a completely renewable energy supply because they have geothermal and hydro power in unlimited availability, electricity is basically free there. They might become the worlds supplier of hydrogen fuel cells in the future.

    We, on the other hand, can only produce hydrogen effectively by using nukes.
  10. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Thats what they said about the Hindenburg.
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    So Honda is on the cusp of energy independance breakthroughs in fuel and engine technologies?

    Hows that for American ingenuity? oh wait...
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    To GM and Fords credit, they have invested significantly in Hydrogen technology. GM especially. Ford's escape is nearing 300 miles per fill. It's the first I've read of Honda's progress.
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, the Hindenburg didn't go down because of hydrogen, it went down because of a paint composed of rocket fuel, or so says a Nasa scientist.
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have watched over the years many of the "little wonders" of Flash Gordon & Star Trek come true, therefore probably some day in the near future we will have little "airborne vehicles" that are odorless, soundless and will be fueled by a little device the size of a matchbox.

    If this should come to pass we can tell the stinking Arab Bastards to go pound sand up their a$ses, and we won't have to bother the Polar Bears.

    If not, the world will end and Boob Gore will be proven right, but he will never know it.
    :bricks:
    Put another log on the fire
    Lets have another cup of tea
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Politically they will drag their heels on any innovative technology, it makes no sense for them as it cuts into their profit margin as the whole industry will need to be retooled... they will wait until the last minute, before these new systems become efficient. Then they will be hailed as heroes.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the turn is around the corner. Seriously. I think the market is driving Hydrogen beyond the reach of those who would benefit from its delay. Look at SUV sales and how rapidly they declined over the last couple of years. People in this country are begining to get it when it comes to stuff like this. I think Hydrogen is a near reality. I'll buy.
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Hydrogen has to be synthesized using a primary energy source. Until this synthesis can be done more economically where it breaks through the marketability threshold, we will not see it, as much in favor of it as I am.
  18. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap Rookie

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    This is a very uplifting thread! My question is why do we need to have one type of fuel for all automobiles? City-dwellers might benefit from electric-powered vehicles, rural populations would do best with gasoline-power (or something else equally powerful, like hydrogen).

    As for hydrogen power, does it mean our fuel tanks would be filled with pure hydrogen? Where would the hydrogen come from in that case? Would there be a hydrogen-refining industry? Do we mine it from the ground? *seriously, I am almost clueless about hydrogen technology*
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm a big believer in this technology. I'm praying that it becomes a successful reality very soon. If it does, we could tell the enviro-nazi's, Big Oil, and most importantly, the Middle East to go...

    [​IMG]

    :D

    Anyhow, this should explain some of the basics.

    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/
  20. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap Rookie

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    Thanks for the link! It sounds very promising, almost miraculous when you consider the by-products are water and heat. I'll buy a car powered by hydrogen...

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