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Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had in this era.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsRI, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Listening to EEI and Holley just said that this version of the linebackers is the best they've had. He said that even though Willie is gone with the signing os Seau and TBC rising to the top that they have the most talent he's seen here. Now I think it's alittle early to tell (Sunday night might show us alot). The Pats are using Seau masterfully and TBC has started to make some plays but if this is the best group yet and the D line is the best they've had then this could be one scary team come December and January.
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2006
  2. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I like Holley but I'd have to disagree with that one. I'd look back at the 2001 group with McGinest, Ted Johnson, Bruschi, and Vrabel as one of the best. Also early in Parcells time here with McGinest, Slade, and Johnson was a pretty formidable group.
  3. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I'm not sure that I agree with this. 2004 was better than this group. Lined up:

    2004 Tedy > 2006 Tedy
    2004 Willie >> 2006 Colvin
    2004 Vrabel = 2006 Vrabel
    2004 Ted Johnson >>> 2006 Seau

    and that group had better depth, as well as more complimentary depth with Colvin and (dammit, I forgot the other ILB. arrrrggggghh)
  4. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Asking for help here. Did they have Phifer, Ted and Ted plus Willie, Colvin and Vrabel together? I think they did, but Colvin got injured.

    I'm not sure.

    I think Willie is not so easily replaced. Willie, Colvin, Vrabel and Bruschi > than any starting 4 we can put together now.
  5. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Phifer is the guy who's name I lost. He was with the team in 04 with partially healthy Colvin.
  6. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I agree with you. No love for Roman Phifer, eh? I always liked him.
  7. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Phifer was the man I was thinking of. If you are saying that I didn't list him, then gotcha! But if you are saying that I am disrespecting him by forgetting his name....

    Then guilty as charged. ;)
  8. jimmyjames

    jimmyjames Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Not sure if I agree, but it is nice to see TBC finally getting into the mix.
  9. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Pure hype.
    A younger Tedy, TJ at MLB, Vrabes and younger Willie with Phifher plus Colvin pre-injury was better. Even after Colvin went down early in '04, that crew was faster.
    I do like this year's LBs. May they stay healthy.
  10. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Does faster necessarily equal better?

    I'm going to be different in this thread and say right on Holley. :rocker:
  11. kptmorgan04

    kptmorgan04 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    It is a good argument... I would have to count the 2004 group as tough competition, but as of now Seau is playing at a very high level and being used almost perfectly. with vrabel, colvin on the outside and TBC starting to perform, it is a pretty impressive group that we have and certainly one of our strengths IF everyone stays healthy
  12. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Best or not, I'm damn happy with the group we have especially Seau.

    Considering what we were looking like with Beisel, I don't see the bashing of Seau. He's 37 and runs around and hits people. More than "Monty" ever did.
  13. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    If one values experience, knowledge and understanding highly then this years LB corps might very well the best group as Holley suggests.

    BTW, I think Seau is performing at a very high level.
  14. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Regardless whether this is their best year, wasn't this the supposed weak area of the D?

    I could probably find in 10 minutes almsot 100 season preview articles that said that NE's LBs were going to be a major liability.
  15. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I've got to chime in here and give love to the linebacking corp that I think was among the greatest in Pats history - Nelson, Tippett, and Blackmon (with McGrew and Rembert as backups).

    It makes for a fun argument.
  16. PatsFan37

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I didn't hear him on WEEI, but do you think maybe that was Holley's point? Poke a finger in the eye of some of the guys out banging trash can lids in the alley behind Gillette?
  17. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Yeah I should have said in this era.
  18. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I'm with ya, Murph. That unit was unbelievable.
  19. Murphys95

    Murphys95 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    No worries. Any day I get to reminisce about the throwback years is a good day. :)
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Holley is correct. We remember players when they were at the top of their games not what they actually were during the run.

    TJ was a shadow of himself,compared to the late nineties. Phifer was a a good but not exceptional pass defending LB with size. His conversion to ILB was merely to an acceptable player level, who did his job. No one was booming him for a Pro bowl invitation. Chatham played for almost an entire season and performed adequately, but he couldn't hold a permanent position as as starter with the Pats nor with the Jets, either. Willie was a near HOF player at 31-33. At 35 his skills were in obvious decline. Cox had the instincts but his wheels were long gone. He did provide leadership for a while.

    Whereas today Bruschi is a complete ILB. Seau a former freelancer with speed has become a increasingly disciplined run stopper only. He is performing better than Cox or TJ during the dynastic run.

    Vrabel is the once and future king. He is both an OLB and a leader and coach on the field and an heir apparent as the "Mike" man. TBC is better than Matt Chatham ever hoped to be. Pierre Woods is raw, but he is much more talented than the scrubs behind Chatham on the other earlier Teams. Lloyd Carr disparaged him and he sank from a possible first rounder to an UDFA. But people still forget even inf Belichick and Pioli didn't, that he had the talent to be considered a possible first round draft pick. Carr was fortunate that he could sit him, and still play future high picks as Michigan LBs.

    The only guy who has not performed to high expectations is Rosey Colvin. But he is still playing as a solid but not spectacular OLB. Even so he is playing better than but the first three games before the hip injury.
  21. FloridaPatsFan

    FloridaPatsFan Rookie

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    Have you noticed Seau's facial expressions on the sidelines when they take him out on 3rd down?

    He looks like he wants to kill the waterboy.

    The dude is intense
  22. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    For a week or two, I was worried because it seemed that other players were incorporating Seau's habit of overcelebrating plays.

    I haven't really noticed much from that the past few weeks, though.
  23. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    If we had Willie of 2003-2004 instead of TBC, I might agree. But TBC has flashed exactly one good game and Holley is jumping to this conclusion.

    I think it is safe to say that we have had good linebacking since 2001.

    I'll wait until the year is over before grading this year's crew.
  24. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Phifer was one of the five Patriots who made the Wheaties box after Super Bowl 36.
  25. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

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    Yes. And I hope that by year's end we will have rightly elevated our appraisal of Seau's 2006 to "great".
  26. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I disgree with the 2004 TJ Seau comparison.

    TJ was fighting Concussions and other dings off and on throughout the season. In 2004 like 3006 the offside ILB was paltoon system TJ on running downs and Phife on passing plays. In 2006 its Seau in the TJ role and either TBC as a passrusher or a nickle formation with either Scott or Hawkin in as the extra DB. It is much more like:

    2004 TJ + Phifer <<< 2006 Seau + TBC +(Scott/Hawkins)
    and
    2004 Chatham < 2006 TBC.

    Finally the proof of the pudding is:
    2004 Defense = 16 PPG
    2006 Defense = 12.4 PPG
  27. Fanfrom1960

    Fanfrom1960 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    Who were the other four?
  28. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I don't think Colvin and Phifer contributed significantly the same season ever.

    I don't agree with Ted Johnson over Seau at all. Seau is doing well against the pass and run alike.

    But McGinest was such an awesome clutch player I can't agree with this assessment yet.
  29. brady et al fan

    brady et al fan Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I have to agree with oswlek's analysis here with the most important being

    2004 Tedy > 2006 Tedy

    Just because the name is the same does not mean the production is the same. And the proof of the pudding numbers you show have as much to do with the 2006 DL > 2004 DL as anything else. Its not all about the LBs.

    I'm also not getting the Seau love. I missed the last Buffalo game but prior to that Seau was getting blown off the ball and teams were running at him. He looked like a shell of his former self. I'll have to watch him more closely Sunday night. Maybe he's been Belicheck'd.

    Of course I might be biased as I rarely, if ever agree with Holley, and think he just throws out whatever he thinks might stir up conversation at the time.
  30. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Re: Holley: This is the best group of LBs the Pats have had.

    I don't mean to overhype Seau - he's old, he's limited, we're happy with what we've seen so far, hope he keeps it up, etc... BUT - you are VASTLY overrating Ted Johnson here, IMO. He was limited for pretty much ALL of the BB era. A solid plugger, overrated tackler, guy who knew the system but...eh.

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