PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey (Merged)


Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I don't think this is a bluff. If the first six players are Long, Long, Dorsey, Gholston, Ryan, McFadden... then Ellis is a natural pick.

Height is not ideal, but he's only one inch shorter than Wilfork. Remember that Wilfork wasn't a NT in college, either, and it took him a couple of years to hit his stride. By 2009, Ellis would be established.

It would cost LeKevin Smith a roster spot. I don't know that's cause for much dismay.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I don't think this is a bluff. If the first six players are Long, Long, Dorsey, Gholston, Ryan, McFadden... then Ellis is a natural pick.

Height is not ideal, but he's only one inch shorter than Wilfork. Remember that Wilfork wasn't a NT in college, either, and it took him a couple of years to hit his stride. By 2009, Ellis would be established.

It would cost LeKevin Smith a roster spot. I don't know that's cause for much dismay.

wilfork was also about 320-330 coming out of college making him a natural NT
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

wilfork was also about 320-330 coming out of college making him a natural NT

BB also drafted Klecko to play NT-- and he's something like 280#. It's not all about size.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Dorsey is not a NT at all. Hes a penetrating cover 2 defensive tackle, like a Warren Sapp. He couldnt replace Seymour either.
Ha ha. You know what Wilfork's nickname at Miami was? Little Sapp.

You guys gotta stop pretending that a player can only do why he has been asked to do so far.

These guys are athletes. They learn, they train, they play football.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

BB also drafted Klecko to play NT-- and he's something like 280#. It's not all about size.

Yeah and he played that position at a very high level for a long time
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

per eei.

He said he has his people who said they are very very high on Ellis and would select him at 7 if he is there or would select Dorsey if he is still there as well.

We all know Holley has very good sources within the organization and if this is true then this is quite a surprise to most of us they are targeting DT's.

Sources are sources. Smokescreens are smokescreens.

If the Pats want a DT in this draft, they're most likely targeting a quality backup and possible future replacement for Wilfork. One of Red Bryant or Ahtyba Rubin in the round three area would seem to fit the bill at NT much more so than Ellis or Dorsey. And playing the latter two at DE in the Seymour/Warren roles? Why -- because they're highly rated?

99% of all mocks are giving the Pats a CB (Samuel), an edge rusher (Colvin), an O-lineman (shoddy SB performance), or a LB (aging LBs) at #7. I find it refreshing to see a new position of interest -- but I don't buy it for one second.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

This is just to scare the Saints or bengals in giving up the farm in a trade down.
Believe me, The patriots see a deep draft class.
If they can scare some team to think they'll draft their guy mission accomplished.
Marvin Lewis is basically looking at playoffs or unemployment and getting his nose tackle is a huge part of that.
Ellis is built for a marvin lewis defense not a new englands unless were cutting bait on seymour or green.
If any I predict a surprise cut or trade of seymour.
I just hope to god he wouldn't go to the jets.
I'm still standing by it being a smokescreen.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I'd cut Santonio Thomas. Ellis would would replace whoever leaves in two years, or whoever is traded in one because we won't pay enough to extend.

I don't think this is a bluff. If the first six players are Long, Long, Dorsey, Gholston, Ryan, McFadden... then Ellis is a natural pick.

Height is not ideal, but he's only one inch shorter than Wilfork. Remember that Wilfork wasn't a NT in college, either, and it took him a couple of years to hit his stride. By 2009, Ellis would be established.

It would cost LeKevin Smith a roster spot. I don't know that's cause for much dismay.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I think their main hope is to trade down, and pick up some additional picks, so this rumor could very well be something the team is putting out in hopes that it will cause someone to give them a better deal in trade. But, I also think they just might select either an OT or D-linement if they stay at 7th, and it doesn't seem like either Gholston or Chris Long will be there, but who knows.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I think their main hope is to trade down, and pick up some additional picks, so this rumor could very well be something the team is putting out in hopes that it will cause someone to give them a better deal in trade. But, I also think they just might select either an OT or D-linement if they stay at 7th, and it doesn't seem like either Gholston or Chris Long will be there, but who knows.
I agree. It's disinformation season.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Meriweather wasn't a need, no. Neither was Maroney. Seymour was a need. So was Warren. But they were also VALUE.

Watson certainly wasn't a need pick. And if you want to start getting into the other rounds, we can.

I follow this team fine, thank you. You obviously don't.

Maroney WAS a need. At the time all they had was an injured, old Dillon, Kevin Faulk. Youth was required at the RB positon. Who was the FS last year? Sanders will move to SS, Merriweather to FS. This makes the secondary faster. So yes, he was drafted for a need. To make the secondary younger. They had NO ONE else at FS, is that not need?

In 2002, they had trouble stopping the run. They needed to build a good DL around Seymour. Switching to the 3-4, he goes after the large DE Ty Warren? That wasn't need? After the 2003 season, Ted Washington went elsewhere. The Patriots needed to replace him in order to work a good 3-4. They sign Traylor to a one year deal, then draft Wilfork. Was Wilfork not drafted out of need? Hell, they reached for Daniel Graham because they NEEDED someone at TE.

All the other needs he drafted over LBs had had other legit needs. This year there isn't a CB tjhat can't be had outside the top 10. That's the only position they need just as much help at. However, this is the clear year for a LB selection. I may be wrong, but it just makes the most sense. The Patriots have proven, as I showed you, to fix defensive holes in need.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I think their main hope is to trade down, and pick up some additional picks, so this rumor could very well be something the team is putting out in hopes that it will cause someone to give them a better deal in trade. But, I also think they just might select either an OT or D-linement if they stay at 7th, and it doesn't seem like either Gholston or Chris Long will be there, but who knows.


Exactly, that and just trying to throw all the attention off their real choice.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Well, other than potentially Vrabel, we don't have any 4-3 ends, so I think that would be a bad plan. If this is true, their plans are to rotate him for this year, and then he will replace Seymour when his contract is up. This is hardly the sexy pick, although I suppose it is forward-thinking, and should help the pass rush.

And other than nobody, no 4-3 linebackers.

Oh and don't foget thomas or Green. Ends we could do, but LBs able to play a 4-3 we have none.
 
Last edited:
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

They will go to the wall to sign wilfork.

Young willing talented NTs are gold.

Sey might be questionable, it depends on his knee.

Considering the holes at CB and LB, I don't know that we have to have three 1sts at DL.

After 2009? Two full seasons of sitting a #1 on the bench?
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I follow this team fine, thank you. You obviously don't.

Maroney WAS a need. At the time all they had was an injured, old Dillon, Kevin Faulk. Youth was required at the RB positon. Who was the FS last year? Sanders will move to SS, Merriweather to FS. This makes the secondary faster. So yes, he was drafted for a need. To make the secondary younger. They had NO ONE else at FS, is that not need?

1.) A first round running back is never a need in the modern NFL.

2.) Given that Meriweather may not even start this season (although I think he will start over Sanders), I'm not sure how you get that he filled a need.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

We all know Holley has very good sources within the organization and if this is true then this is quite a surprise to most of us they are targeting DT's.

I wouldn't have a problem if BB took an elite DT. Dorsey and Ellis may be the only two guys who grade out as worthy of a 7 pick on the Patriots draft board. Chances are that the Patriots will not have another draft pick in the top 10 anytime soon, so grabbing a stud DT while they have the opportunity makes sense. Top notch DTs generally don't last to where the Pats usually pick near the bottom of Round 1.
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

1.) A first round running back is never a need in the modern NFL.

Heavens, we do have a lot of different definitions of "need" in this thread! Here's one that has nothing to do with filling holes on the team, but is based on "value" at different points in the draft. No wonder nobody can agree on whether the Patriots draft based on need.
:bricks:
 
Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

I follow this team fine, thank you. You obviously don't.

Maroney WAS a need.
Well of course if they couldn't use a player, they wouldn't pick him.

A team needs to have the best player possible at every position.

When people talk about picking for need vs picking for value, they are are talking about the philosophy of selecting. Two ways to do it:

1. Pck for need. Figure out which position is the weakest and pick the best player available at that position. This is rather simple to do. You simply list all the draft picks by position, from top to bottom, best to worst, then when it is your turn to pick go to the column with the position you have predecided has the greatest need and take the best player that is left. Next selection, take the top player from whatever column is next on you list of needed positions. This makes for an easy draft day because your board never changes. You know what position you are selecting (your position of greatest need) and all you do is take the best player at that position.

2. Pick for value. Compare all players for maximum long-term value to the team and rank them, regardless of position. This makes for a very complicated board because you are judging the impact of this particular linebacker vs that particular TE, and your draft board is always changing.

If you pick for need, it will work for a year of two, then you will have a subpar team. When you take the best player at a certain position, you may be passing over several better players at other positions. Then, next year or the next, you need a player at one of those positions you passed over to grab you position of need. You pick the best player at this year's position of need, passing over players of other positions because you don't need them. Now you have players in both positions for the next few years taht aren't as good as the ones you could have had because you passed over a better player to grab your position of need. Over the long haul, this leaves you with a lesser team.

Grabbing players based on long-term value will often result in some positions being stronger than others, and you may draft a DL/DE when your DLine is already dominant, but this is not as bad a thing as many make it out to be. When you can totally dominate one phase of the game, all other teams will need to address this dominance in their game plan and you know what each opponent will more or less do.
 
Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

I really, really hope that this talk of Dorsey/Ellis is just a smokescreen by the FO, and that Holley is acting as an accomplice, or as the dupe.

Drafting either of them would indicate a sea change in defensive philosophy at Foxborough, because both Dorsey and Ellis are 4-3 DTs, and only 4-3 DTs. However, similar to attempts by Manjudas the past two seasons, the NEP do not yet have the front-7 personnel to successfully switch from predominately 3-4 to predominately 4-3, nor have they acquired anybody whose strength is 4-3 and weakness is 3-4.

Let's all hope that this Dorsey/Ellis (esp. Ellis) talk is just that - talk.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Back
Top