Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey (Merged)

[IndyKen]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

I love Dorsey but am not completely sold on Ellis (not because I have a bad opinion on him, more that I've just never really seen too much of the guy). I can't see why we'd take Dorsey since we still have Seymour and need more of a linebacker. So, out of the two, we're more likely to take Ellis.

I've read that Ellis was the most dominant player at this year's Senior Bowl - not a bad thing to have in your resume going into the draft.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

Why do you say Ellis can't play end? Because he is a DT? Ty Warren played DT at Texas A&M, didn't he? I'd say he can play DE. What position did Seymour play in Georgia? Was he a DT or DE there?

Because he's under 6'1". And, can't run under 5.0. If you want to change to a 4-3.
I'll take D.Harvey and slide Seymour inside.

 

[FootballFanetic]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Pardon my ignorance, but are Wilfork's and Seymour's current deals up after 2009, as some of the posts above implied?

 

[apple strudel]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

There's a good chance that both are gone by number 7. If Jake Long goes to the Dophins, St. Louis, Kansas City, the Raiders and the Jets could all conceivably look to draft a defensive lineman. I think the strategy is correct, though. Extremely strong and agile 300 pound linemen are the most important type of player to draft, outside of elite quarterbacks.

I also thought it was interesting that there are no corner backs in the Pats' top 10. I wonder how big the smallest player the Patriots would be willing to draft at number 7 is?

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Pardon my ignorance, but are Wilfork's and Seymour's current deals up after 2009, as some of the posts above implied?

Yes they both are :

http://www.patscap.com/

 

[apple strudel]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Pardon my ignorance, but are Wilfork's and Seymour's current deals up after 2009, as some of the posts above implied?

"And with Richard Seymour (2009), Vince Wilfork (2009) and Jarvis Green (2009) all having contracts that expire in two years, it's never too early to start replenishing that area."

boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/03/04/beyond_gathering_moss/?page=3

Sorry for not having a proper link - I don't have enough posts yet. But that's 3 out of the top 4 defensive lineman on the team, which makes a compelling argument for replenishing the position now.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

Smokescreen. If S.Ellis is on board at 7. I think someone will trade up to get him.

I'm inclined to agree. Assume Dorsey is gone. The trade value for Ellis goes up if Cincy/NO/others believe he could go at #7. Otherwise the Bengals may sit at #9 and take their chances.

If we ran a 4-3. I'd be ok with it. But, we run a 3-4. We have the best NG in football. Ellis can't play end in a 3-4. Square peg. Round hole. I'd be shocked if we took him.

Don't agree at all. He doesn't have ideal height, but he would be able to assist all along the line (3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, 4-3 DT, 3-4 NT). He may not be the prototype for the Pats at any of these positions, but his skill set and position flexibility would make up for that.

That being said, I'm still looking for a tradedown. If they can't and are "stuck" at #7, I could definitely see Ellis being the pick.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

I'm inclined to agree. Assume Dorsey is gone. The trade value for Ellis goes up if Cincy/NO/others believe he could go at #7. Otherwise the Bengals may sit at #9 and take their chances.)

I think a team below NO will want to move up. I think Denver, Carolina and Chicago(having trouble signing T.Harris) could use S.Ellis. My guess. Carolina. They weren't happy with Jenkins. And, don't have anyone to replace him. Just a hunch.

 

[apple strudel]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

Wilfork, Seymour and Green all have contracts that end in 2009, so getting a guy for 6 years to take over at least one of these positions is a smart long term move. Reiss considered the possibility recently: boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/03/04/beyond_gathering_moss/?page=3

Sorry for the shoddy link - I don't have enough posts to do a proper one.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

I think a team below NO will want to move up. I think Denver, Carolina and Chicago(having trouble signing T.Harris) could use S.Ellis. My guess. Carolina. They weren't happy with Jenkins. And, don't have anyone to replace him. Just a hunch.

Possible and that would be ideal. The reason why I specifically mention Cincy and NO is I'm fairly confident that they would have Ellis as #1 on their draft board (assuming no surprises) with #2 being a fairly distant second.

Denver (still looking trade), Carolina (needs everywhere) and Chicago (terrible offense) all have pressing needs outside of DT. My darkhorse is Tampa but the cost to trade up is likely too much.

 

[bakes781]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

Holley's the same guy who said there is no way Bill passes on Jon Beason last year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

With any luck, this will be nothing more than a smokescreen.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

With any luck, this will be nothing more than a smokescreen.

Again though, when you have a solid team like the Patriots you can afford to draft BPA and not need. Especially when this team has no glaring holes. Could they use depth at linebacker, ABSOLUTELY, but what guarantee is there you're going to get that out of a rookie.

Free agency for need if you can, draft BPA if you can, that's the formula that's kept the Pats on top in this decade.

 

[letekro]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

If they did draft one of those guys, we will see more 4-3 than 3-4. You just can't take a player that high and then use him as a back up or even part of a rotation.

I will be surprisesd if they do that but they really know what they are doing and I don't.

Well, other than potentially Vrabel, we don't have any 4-3 ends, so I think that would be a bad plan. If this is true, their plans are to rotate him for this year, and then he will replace Seymour when his contract is up. This is hardly the sexy pick, although I suppose it is forward-thinking, and should help the pass rush.

 

[My2Cents]

Re: Holley: Pats LOVE Ellis and Dorsey

Michael Holley (...who has connections) just said on his radio show that the Patriots LOVE Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey, and view them as "special" players.

He also said that at this point, they don't have a corner in their top 10.

#1. Is there really anybody in the top 5 that EVERY team doesn't LOVE?
It's a very safe thing (or as somebody else said, "a smokescreen") to say
that if so-and-so is there, you'll take him when you know darn well he won't be there. Both Dorsey and Ellis are virtual locks for the top 5 at this point.
Newsflash to Holley: EVERYONE thinks they're "special" and EVERYONE knows they'll be gone.

#2. Where's the follow up questions, Holley? Who do they take when those two players are off the board? Do they stand pat and pick ---or move out?
Do they "reach" for the best DB on their board, or do they take the BPA?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I have no problem with the Pats taking Ellis, however I would not be surprised if this isn't bait for the Bengals or Lions to pony up for the #7 pick.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Again though, when you have a solid team like the Patriots you can afford to draft BPA and not need. Especially when this team has no glaring holes. Could they use depth at linebacker, ABSOLUTELY, but what guarantee is there you're going to get that out of a rookie.

Free agency for need if you can, draft BPA if you can, that's the formula that's kept the Pats on top in this decade.

I think they need at least another starting quality LB. Although I am high on Hobson, there is no guarantees he can start. Bruschi clearly isn't at a point where he should be a full time starter and is best used as a rotational/situational guy. This is most likely his last year too. So they need more than depth at LB and ILB has the potential for being a HUGE hole.

Drafting a back up DT/DE is a luxary. One we may not have. I seriously doubt we will move more to a 4-3 front. Everyone predicts that year after year even when LBs go down and it has never happened unless a particular opponent calls for it.

Would I be really upset if we drafted Ellis or Dorsey? No, but I would be disapointed. We should be able to get a third or fourth for Jarvis Green if we did and probably trade Seymour or Wilfork the following season if the rookie showed during this upcoming season he was ready to step up. So we could potentially get a third this year and first next year or more if we did draft Ellis or Dorsey, but we still may be stuck with a gaping hole at LB this season.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

If they did draft one of those guys, we will see more 4-3 than 3-4. You just can't take a player that high and then use him as a back up or even part of a rotation.

I will be surprisesd if they do that but they really know what they are doing and I don't.

I don't see the Pats ever moving to a 4-3 in their base. The fact they added Dom Capers to their coaching staff this offseason seems to show their commitment to the 3-4 is as strong as ever. You don't bring in a senior coach with the experience of Capers and then use a defense that is not his core specialty.

If the Pats take Ellis or Dorsey, my guess is that either Seymour or Wilfork will not be playing for the Patriots in 2009.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

If they did draft one of those guys, we will see more 4-3 than 3-4.

NO YOU WON'T. This is a ridiculous argument. The Patriots playing "more 4-3" is periodically trotted out when stuff like this comes up. Their base is a 3-4 and will continue to be. And in recent years, when we've shifted to a 4-3, it has been not NEARLY as successful as the 3-4. Please just stop.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Re: Michael Holley believes Patriots will draft Ellis or Dorsey

Unlees your going to the 4-3, it makes no sense. This team has NO LBs, young or ready. They have a DL. This team drafts for need. I understand DL will be a need in a few years, I think Seymour's days are limited. However, you have at worst Green playing for him for a year or two. LB you have absolutely no one, therefore the fact that it's even leaked lets me know they're trying to create smoke.

You think the Pats would be happy if their employees constantly talked real with the media? Exactly.