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Holley: "Patriots aren't Merriman people..."


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What you fail to consider is the effect a one year $20M deal or any number of one year deals for top tier money to FA does to the salary structure of the team going forward. Brady is making $10M per on his present deal, actual take home in year 6 $6.5M. If one year of Peppers is worth $20M, what is 5 or 6 more years of Brady going to cost you. Multiply that equation by a NT and a LG and a PK and all the players yet to become FA here...

Another thing you fail to consider is the limitation Kraft faces due to revenue stream. We aren't the 'Skins, who could get away with cash over cap extravagances indefinitely - not that it mattered - because of the revenue that team and that 90,000 seat stadium generate. Kraft has wealth that extends beyond the team, unlike some owners. But he won't spent it on the team. He expects that segment of his business to cover it's own operating costs. When they don't is when you get into trouble as a business man.

First of all, they can trade for Peppers and try to give him a long term deal and if they can't they eat the $20 million. Asante Samuel's cap hit didn't hurt the Pats when they franchised him in terms of other players. I don't see the coorlation. Brady is going to get $10-13 million a year no matter what Peppers gets for one year. Brady's not stupid and think if Peppers refuses to take a long term deal and he plays one year and $20 million that he deserves $20 million a year. Brady hasn't even asked to be the highest paid QB the last time he was negotiating his contract although he had the right to.

Second, Kraft makes almost as much of a profit as Snyder. Kraft might not make as much money from attendence in the game, but he makes more money on marketing deals like CBS Scene and other things that he does with strategic partnerships.

Third, prior to Belichick coming here (even the first year he was here), Kraft had no problem overpaying for his players. In 1999 and 2000, he made Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, and Drew Bledsoe the highest paid players at their position (or in the top 2). It took something like six year before another CB got a better deal than Ty Law got in 1999. Just because the Pats became cap conscious under Belichick and Pioli doesn't mean if Kraft has an opportunity to let his fan side buy players without cap ramifications to better the team doesn't mean he wouldn't do it. Don't forget the Pats are the second most profitable team in the league.

Fourth, the new CBA may make whatever anyone makes in an uncapped year moot. If the league gets their way and slows down the growth of the cap exponentially, we may see a trend of players salaries either slowing growth, freezing at the level they are, or even shrinking a bit.

This is mostly theory and a moot point anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats signed Peppers this offseason, but I would be if they signed him to an one year $20 million deal. I am really talking hypothetical. I could see them giving him an one year well above market deal like his current salary, but not over $20 million.
 
First of all, they can trade for Peppers and try to give him a long term deal and if they can't they eat the $20 million. Asante Samuel's cap hit didn't hurt the Pats when they franchised him in terms of other players. I don't see the coorlation. Brady is going to get $10-13 million a year no matter what Peppers gets for one year. Brady's not stupid and think if Peppers refuses to take a long term deal and he plays one year and $20 million that he deserves $20 million a year. Brady hasn't even asked to be the highest paid QB the last time he was negotiating his contract although he had the right to.

Peppers is 30 years old now and having him hasn't been a difference maker in Carolina either. Samuel's tag number was $7.8M, still well below the past and present cap and contract leaders on the team. He had also played for at least the tail end of his 4 year rookie deal for well below his market (by simple virtue of his ring in 2004 as essentially the starting LCB once the $12M man Ty Law went down). We can get a passrushing component without throwing $20M at the problem. When you do it your way if **** happens you're shir out of luck.

Second, Kraft makes almost as much of a profit as Snyder. Kraft might not make as much money from attendence in the game, but he makes more money on marketing deals like CBS Scene and other things that he does with strategic partnerships.

Not even close, and Kraft has a mortgage to pay, Snyder doesn't. Snyder has already bankrupted one of his other businesses, to boot. Kraft isn't looking to do that to his family. Kraft has 3 Lombardi's in his personal collection. Snyder has zero - mostly because he mismanaged his franchise out of the gate and has yet to learn his lesson. You don't win by collecting talent intent on market setting deals, you win by building a deep and cohesive and disciplined team to whom winning matters.

Third, prior to Belichick coming here (even the first year he was here), Kraft had no problem overpaying for his players. In 1999 and 2000, he made Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, and Drew Bledsoe the highest paid players at their position (or in the top 2). It took something like six year before another CB got a better deal than Ty Law got in 1999. Just because the Pats became cap conscious under Belichick and Pioli doesn't mean if Kraft has an opportunity to let his fan side buy players without cap ramifications to better the team doesn't mean he wouldn't do it. Don't forget the Pats are the second most profitable team in the league.

Yes it does. Kraft learned his lesson. He wasn't winning the fanboy way.

Fourth, the new CBA may make whatever anyone makes in an uncapped year moot. If the league gets their way and slows down the growth of the cap exponentially, we may see a trend of players salaries either slowing growth, freezing at the level they are, or even shrinking a bit.

The Krafts are pretty CBA savvy. They appear to be unwilling to take risks that don't have long term benefit. They know that any new CBA will have a cap and it won't be rising as dramatically as it has even in the recent past. That is the goal of owners in this entire process... Teams who behave foolishly in advance of an uncapped year or new CBA will be the next generation of teams in cap hell. Happened when the cap was first introduced, too. This team succeeded because BB had a plan to manage the cap properly. Kraft bought in to his overall management philolophy as his scheme.

This is mostly theory and a moot point anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats signed Peppers this offseason, but I would be if they signed him to an one year $20 million deal. I am really talking hypothetical. I could see them giving him an one year well above market deal like his current salary, but not over $20 million.

If one year of Peppers is worth $20M then one year of Brady is worth $25M and one year of Wilfork is worth $18M and one year of Mankins...and on and on. And their remaining years are still worth what they were worth and those players are less inclined to settle for less. This team is predicated on conservative financial principles and discipline that guys at the top either respect or they leave and guys on the rest of the roster therefore respect and in some cases ultimately benefit from...because it leaves more money on the table for rank and file players. If you give a guy like Peppers a one year market setting deal, you take several million dollars out of play for the rest of the roster even absent a cap because revenue is limited.
 
Peppers is 30 years old now and having him hasn't been a difference maker in Carolina either. Samuel's tag number was $7.8M, still well below the past and present cap and contract leaders on the team. He had also played for at least the tail end of his 4 year rookie deal for well below his market (by simple virtue of his ring in 2004 as essentially the starting LCB once the $12M man Ty Law went down). We can get a passrushing component without throwing $20M at the problem. When you do it your way if **** happens you're shir out of luck.


Again different eras in time. Three years ago, $7.8 million was an significantly bigger part of the cap considering the cap since the last CBA has been growing at an exponential rate.

As for the money for Peppers, if it is an one year deal in an uncapped year, the money is irrelevant as long as Kraft is willing to pay it and it doesn't shortchange the Pats from making the other moves they make. It is like Red Sox fans crying about how much a certain player is making since it really doesn't make a difference as long as the Red Sox are still adding players they need.

Seriously, if there is no cap this year, the Patriots give Mankins, Wilfork, and Gostkowski long term deals, they fill most of their holes in free agency and the draft, and they pay Peppers $20 million for one year; you are going to be upset because Peppers is 30? Opposed to paying Adalius Thomas more than that for basically one good year of service and two average to mediocre? At least with Peppers, you don't have him holding your team down if he doesn't pan out.


Not even close, and Kraft has a mortgage to pay, Snyder doesn't. Snyder has already bankrupted one of his other businesses, to boot. Kraft isn't looking to do that to his family. Kraft has 3 Lombardi's in his personal collection. Snyder has zero - mostly because he mismanaged his franchise out of the gate and has yet to learn his lesson. You don't win by collecting talent intent on market setting deals, you win by building a deep and cohesive and disciplined team to whom winning matters.


Snyder has a mortgage. The state assisted him in building FedEx field, but he had to shell out about $200 million of his own money. Snyder's other business misfortunes probably have nothing to do with the Redskins.

As for Snyder's lack of success, it has to do with his lack of scouting, willingness to trade away all his draft picks, impatience with players and coaches, and his love of acquiring names who are mismatches or are living purely on reputation.

The Jets took the Snyder way of building a team and they are playing in the AFC Championships on Sunday. Paying for big free agents have apparently haven't hurt them.

An uncapped year is not the same as a capped year. If you spend in an uncapped year it doesn't chock your cap unless the cap is reinstated and you have a multiyear contract on a player. What Snyder did and what I suggested is unrelated.

Yes it does. Kraft learned his lesson. He wasn't winning the fanboy way.


But the rules have changed in an uncapped year. He and Belichick have to learn new rules. You can argue they are already behind the curve since the cap growing as fast as it did means that their way of looking at value of players is outdated and probably cost us players that we probably didn't have to lose like Asante Samuel. Maybe Kraft and Belichick need to go back to school because you can argue they are managing this team in an outdated fashion. I don't 100% subscribe to that notion, but it does have some valid points.

The Krafts are pretty CBA savvy. They appear to be unwilling to take risks that don't have long term benefit. They know that any new CBA will have a cap and it won't be rising as dramatically as it has even in the recent past. That is the goal of owners in this entire process... Teams who behave foolishly in advance of an uncapped year or new CBA will be the next generation of teams in cap hell. Happened when the cap was first introduced, too. This team succeeded because BB had a plan to manage the cap properly. Kraft bought in to his overall management philolophy as his scheme.



The fact of the matter is we have no idea how they are going to approach an uncapped year? Do you really take Jonathan Kraft on his word based on what he told Felger and Mazz on the radio.

Fact of the matter is Felger has a point in that we have been predicting cap doom for the Colts for years now and maybe in the next decade or two we will be right. I know Harrison's contract forced them to cut marquee players like Wayne, Freeney, and Clark.

Even if there is no cap in 2010 and a new cap returns in 2011, every team has the freedom to do outrageous one year deals in 2010 with no cap consequence. If the Pats want to do things similiar to what they did with Stallworth and Washington only bigger, they can and it will not affect a future cap one iota. I am sure Kraft and Belichick know this. Whether they take advantage of this is something we will have to wait until March to see.

Personally, I think the Pats are going to spend this offseason no matter what. Cap or no cap, they have tens of millions they will probably spend because of their cap flexibility at this point if there was a cap and their actual real dollar payroll is so low.

One thing is for sure, no matter what happens with the cap, the rules in managing an NFL roster has changed since the early part of this Century. The Pats will have to adapt or they will have been past by the rest of the league.
 
If one year of Peppers is worth $20M then one year of Brady is worth $25M and one year of Wilfork is worth $18M and one year of Mankins...and on and on. And their remaining years are still worth what they were worth and those players are less inclined to settle for less. This team is predicated on conservative financial principles and discipline that guys at the top either respect or they leave and guys on the rest of the roster therefore respect and in some cases ultimately benefit from...because it leaves more money on the table for rank and file players. If you give a guy like Peppers a one year market setting deal, you take several million dollars out of play for the rest of the roster even absent a cap because revenue is limited.

Again, it will be an uncapped year and different rules apply. Say if the new CBA has a cap restriction and the cap goes down intially? Do you think Wilfork if he is franchised this year and is an UFA next year will get Albert Haynesworth money if the cap is $10 million less than it was in 2009? And I am just throwing a hypothetical here.

Besides, if Daniel Snyder gives Peppers an one year deal worth $40 million, then Brady is worth one year $50 million, Wilfork is worht one year $38 million, and so on down the line. The Pats don't opperate in a vaccuum. Wilfork's representatives are working off Albert Haynesworth's deal in their negotions with the Pats right now, not Ty Warren's or Mike Wright's. Whether the Pats go crazy or not, players will see what other players in the league are getting and will want and demand the Pats give it. That is why Asante Samuel is no longer a Patriot.
 
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I would love to see McClain (Trade our #1 in 2010 and 2011 to move up and get him) and Dansby (Free agent signing) at ILB for us next season.

We are not going to be able to sniff McClain, much less draft him. Dunlap is another story, however. As for Dansby, I would love to see him in a Patriot uniform. Put him in the ILB spot next to Mayo and re-sign Wilfork, and our run defense up the middle instantly improves. It will improve tenfold if we also draft a DE capable of taking on two blockers, being a presence in the run game, and getting push toward the QB when the opposing offense is passing.
 
How is Merriman a woman beater?

ESPN: Shawne Merriman accused of choking Telia Tequila

Next Day:

2r7om1f.jpg
 
i feel bad for maroney, he was doing good until tose fumbles i hope he work on his issues this offseason and BB gives him another shot in the future
 
We are not going to be able to sniff McClain, much less draft him. Dunlap is another story, however. As for Dansby, I would love to see him in a Patriot uniform. Put him in the ILB spot next to Mayo and re-sign Wilfork, and our run defense up the middle instantly improves. It will improve tenfold if we also draft a DE capable of taking on two blockers, being a presence in the run game, and getting push toward the QB when the opposing offense is passing.

that would be great but not many players can do that, which is why seymour was such a special player
 
???? What kind of 'if' statement is that?

It's like saying if Trevor Matich had performed well enough to bring us several 90's superbowls, we wouldn't have minded giving SF Jerry Rice for him.

Well, duh.

If Merriman was a different kind of person, not partying before a playoff game, he would be performing well and the whole situation would be different, though I sincerely doubt 95% of the people would applaud his private life. YMMV.

And of course, if Merriman was a different kind of person and performing well, SD would want to keep him and this thread would be moot.

Way to take it to the Nth degree. It's pretty simple actually. Many people here are saying they wouldn't want the guy because of his personal life, steroids, etc. I'm saying that if he played well, almost no one would talk about that and would instead focus on his great play and would not complain that "a guy like that" is on the team.
 
Could we please sign someone that Matt Light can't handle?
 
I would love to see McClain (Trade our #1 in 2010 and 2011 to move up and get him) and Dansby (Free agent signing) at ILB for us next season.

Where would Mayo play? And no way Belichick pays 2 firsts for one player.
 
Have you heard Tila Tequila talk? I would probably choke her too. :cool:

If I saw Tila Tequila crossing the street, I would have to seriously consider choking her on general principle.
 
Could we please sign someone that Matt Light can't handle?

I think when they get brought in they should have to lineup opposite Vollmer..

"Next.......................":p
 
I want to sign a stud LB. Do not care if they did a dance after a sack, played for a hated rival, got caught on steroids, had a domestic disturbance, partied the weekend before a playoff game, or two nights before a game.
The guy had knee surgery last year. Does anyone expect a player to be 100% the next year? All I care about is if BB likes him as a football player and thinks he'll fit in our defense.
 
I want to sign a stud LB. Do not care if they did a dance after a sack, played for a hated rival, got caught on steroids, had a domestic disturbance, partied the weekend before a playoff game, or two nights before a game.
The guy had knee surgery last year. Does anyone expect a player to be 100% the next year? All I care about is if BB likes him as a football player and thinks he'll fit in our defense.

I couldnt disagree more. No offense. This guy was a player. WAS.

Now its all about what he can gain out of his publicity when injured instead of rehabbing he joined a sunday analyst show for the rest of the season. He has a long history of partying it up on weekends. And on top of it all he loves drama!!!

Thats TO ish in my book. Now am i saying that makes him a bad player or even a bad guy? No not at all, but hes just not dedicated to the game as other athletes are.

This team needs dedicated winners right now. Not pop stars.
 
Merriman is the very definition of a meathead. I don't want him on this team. Lights Out to that idea.
 
If he came here and performed well, 95% of people would love him.

And yes, I know that you are all that 5% that still would despise him.

I would love him ... if he performed 12-14 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, 1 pic... yeah I would love him
 
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