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Holding Penalty Question

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by kriskanos, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. kriskanos

    kriskanos On the Game Day Roster

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    Ok the Giants were called for offensive holding. Which is a ten yard penalty right? ok....After the penalty it was 2nd and 6. Does anyone else remember this and can maybe explain it to me?
     
  2. Dr Pain

    Dr Pain Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I saw that too and I can't explain it either. Should have been 2nd and 16.
     
  3. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat On the Game Day Roster

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    Yeh...I couldn't work that one out. Can only assume we missed a play :rolleyes:
     
  4. Touchback Jack

    Touchback Jack Practice Squad Player

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    Hey! I noticed the same thing and no one said anything about it!
     
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    I don't understand why, but apparently they just tacked the 10-yard penalty onto the end of the run, rather than taking the run back. Why? Beats the #@%! out of me.
     
  6. NEGIRLPATSFAN

    NEGIRLPATSFAN On the Game Day Roster

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    AT MY COUNT, THEY DIDN'T SHOW 2 PLAYS...
    ONE WAS A 2ND DOWN
    I BACKED UP THE DVR AND WE ARE SURE OF IT...
     
  7. PaulThePat

    PaulThePat On the Game Day Roster

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    Just checked the play by play and it says:

    New York Giants at 11:06
    3-S.Gostkowski kicks 65 yards from NE 30 to NYG 5. 87-D.Hixon pushed ob at NYG 38 for 33 yards (31-B.Meriweather). PENALTY on NYG-81-A.Toomer, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at NYG 38.

    1-10-NYG 23 (10:56) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to NYG 29 for 6 yards (36-J.Sanders, 55-J.Seau).

    2-4-NYG 29 (10:28) 27-B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 38 for 9 yards (36-J.Sanders). PENALTY on NYG-81-A.Toomer, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 37. Officially, a rush for 8 yards.

    Timeout #2 by NE at 09:59.

    2-6-NYG 27
    (9:59) 10-E.Manning pass deep left intended for 17-P.Burress INTERCEPTED by 27-E.Hobbs at NE 48. 27-E.Hobbs ran ob at NE 48 for no gain.

    After the holding penalty it surely should have been 2-14 but they've somehow then added back on an 8 yard run to give 2-6...eh ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  8. SoCalPatsfan90

    SoCalPatsfan90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I noticed that too, so I'm not sure what the heck happened there.
     
  9. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas In the Starting Line-Up

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    Holding is assessed from the spot of the foul so if they break a 40 yard run to the 20 yard line and a WR gets called for holding at the 24 they get the ball at the 34 and it would still be a first and 10
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
  10. homerpatsfan

    homerpatsfan Practice Squad Player

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    I THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY. WHATS UP WITH THAT?????:rolleyes:
     
  11. homerpatsfan

    homerpatsfan Practice Squad Player

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    ONE FOR PERERRA ON NFL NETWORK

    not sure of spelling?:confused:
     
  12. homerpatsfan

    homerpatsfan Practice Squad Player

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    i'll take the INT
     
  13. SoCalPatsfan90

    SoCalPatsfan90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Interesting, and makes sense with what happened I guess.
     
  14. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    I think Migeul has the rulebook somewhere we can look it up to be sure
     
  15. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas In the Starting Line-Up

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    #11 Jersey

    In looking for the exact rule i found some intersting ones

    15 Yards and Loss of Coin Toss Option
    1. Team’s late arrival on the field prior to scheduled kickoff.
    2. Captains not appearing for coin toss.


    Touchdown Awarded (Palpably Unfair Act)
    1. When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown. (Example: Player comes off bench and tackles runner apparently en route to touchdown.)

    i couldn't find it for sure but i did learn that you can hold once the pass as gone past the line of scrimmage. Also if you are no where near the play
     
  16. kriskanos

    kriskanos On the Game Day Roster

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    Only on a runback. If there is a hold on a regular play the play comes back and there is a ten yard penalty.
     
  17. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    How long have you people been watching/playing football? This ruling is applied all the time.

    Holding on running plays is enforced from the end of the run, except when the hold occurs behind the line of scrimmage. I believe the technical terms are "dead ball spot" versus "previous spot." The theory as I learned it is that a hold downfield affects the end of the play, a hold in the backfield affects the entire play, i.e. why you can't hold with impunity in the end zone.
     
  18. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    Here at the applicable rules to foul enforcement on running plays. The play in question is the last exception:

    • Rule 14 (Penalty Enforcement)
    • Section 1 (Spot From Which Penalty In Foul Is Enforced)
    • Article 5 (Basic Spots of Enforcement)
    • Rule B
      "The dead ball spot on a running play."
    • Exception 1 to Article 5
      "All fouls committed by the offensive team behind the line of scrimmage shall be penalized from the previous spot."
    • Article 12
      "When a foul occurs during a running play and the run in which the foul occurs is not followed by a change of team possession during the down, the spot of the enforcement is the spot where the ball is dead."
    • Exception 1 to Article 12
      "When the spot of a foul by the offense is behind the spot where dead, enforce is from the spot of the foul."

    The upshot is that holding is enforced from the previous spot (line of scrimmage) if it occurs behind the line of scrimmage, the spot of the foul if it occurs behind the end of the run, and from the end of the run if it occurs past that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2007
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