Welcome to PatsFans.com

Holder's REasonable Decision...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Nov 20, 2009.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,066
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +199 / 7 / -24

    Interesting story from the WAPO authored by Jim Comey, a deputy attorney general and U.S. attorney in Manhattan during the Bush administration, is general counsel of Lockheed Martin Corp. Jack Goldsmith, an assistant attorney general during the Bush administration, teaches at Harvard Law School and is on the Hoover Institution's Task Force on National Security and Law.

    Puts this into perspective..

    washingtonpost.com

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Don't worry, the "opposition" has no need for facts and context.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  3. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +346 / 6 / -7

    Nope, just your run-of-the-mill fear monger and breathless handwringing.

    Wonder what the dittoheads around here will have to say about this?
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,257
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +378 / 1 / -9

    Quote (If al-Qaeda could carry out another attack in New York, it would -- a fact true a week ago and for a long time. Its inability to do so is a testament to our military, intelligence and law enforcement responses since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.)

    Thanks to Bush and yes NYC probably is safe unless the Politically Correct Ding Dongs decide they don't want to Offend anybody.
  5. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    What about the cost to the state of NY. Last I heard they weren't operating in the black.....
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,066
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +199 / 7 / -24

    When confronted with the fact that they only got 3 out of 8 convictions, change the subject...
  7. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    With the left-leaning claims that military tribunalsare soooo unfair. You've made the point that those claims are untrue. If only 3 of 8 resulted in convictions, sounds like the military tribunal route is a fair and adequate way to try enemy combatants.

    Thanks for proving this point.
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,799
    Likes Received:
    74
    Ratings:
    +121 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    It was 3 convictions in 8 years not 3 out of 8 cases right?
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,066
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +199 / 7 / -24

    So that means that if they bring the 5 to trial in military tribunals and get 3 convictions.. that would be OK???? The reality is that the Bush regime f...ed this up, and all that is happening now is trying fix it.
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +346 / 6 / -7

    Did you throw out your back with that reach? Or even read the article at all? Which, by the way, is becoming a trend with you.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,666
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +133 / 7 / -13

    Of course the other defendants weren't captured out of the country, they were the subjects of a criminal investigation. Apples and Oranges. The people on Holders staff are people who had defended TERRORIST at GITMO, these are people who have an agenda that is opposed to the US in the WOT and pro terrorist. They was no change there would be a tribunal in spite of the fact that KSM had pleaded guilty and asked for the death penalty. This is all about throwing to leftist extremist and putting Bush and Cheney on trial.
  12. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +346 / 6 / -7

    I'm sorry, I can't really understand what you're saying. Did you even read the article?
  13. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    No, my point is that a military tribunal is certain to be as fair as a civilian court.

    I'm still trying to find one notable benefit of having the KSM trial held in a civilian court. How does it benefit anyone?
  14. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +346 / 6 / -7

    OK, so he didn't read the article. Shocker.
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,666
    Likes Received:
    67
    Ratings:
    +133 / 7 / -13


    No I have read articles about the background of Holders people and Holder himself (he was trying to stop the military commissions before being part of the administration people he brought into justice defended Gitmo detainees.

    The facts around the capture of KSM and the others are fundamentally different than the people tried for the first WTC bombing.

    This show trial is designed to throw a bone to the left and make Bush/Cheney look bad.
  16. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +97 / 31 / -3

    #75 Jersey

    This is an EPIC mistake!!!!

    First off, any decent judge would throw the case out. How could you possible convict a guy on evidence obtained without warrrant and a confession without Miranda that was the results of waterboarding??? Honestly I know the liberals are stupid, but they really can't be this dumb!!! NOW, what if they do convict them, does that mean that the legal precendence is now set in the US that you can be convicted with evidence obtained without warrant (let's not even go into the chain of custody of that evidence) and with a confession that was obtained trough coersion without Miranda, does anyone want to live in a country where that legal precedence exists???

    Let's start to think about why they are doing this..

    First Off, "because it is the right thing to do" is complete BS, because they are similtaneously trying others caught the same way in militray tribunals.

    Why move away from military tribunals? Legal history, NONE, Enemy combatants have been tried by the military since the Revolutionary War.

    This is nothing more than a trail of the Bush Administration and the CIA, hoping to destroy both of them. What else could you get from this? Obama and Holder have both come out publicly and "guarenteed a conviction" rumour is that both of these guys went to law school, but wouldn't that create a sense for the defense counsel to claim that their clients were never going to get a fair trail??????

    I can't even imagine the money that it is going to cost for security for this trail and how many other trails are going to be put off by this, all to give Al Queda some free propoganda!

    None of this makes any sense, the only real purpose is to embarass Bush and the CIA and cripple the US Intelligence system. Can you imagine what the guys who caught these idiots are thinking now, am I going to get subpeonaed to testify in open court, as to the intelligence gathering capabilities of the US military and the CIA. ALso the black Ops that were used to capture these guys. It is mind numbing to even think about trying these guys like this. Let alone the horrific legal precedents that will be set.

    Now what happens when the judge, rightly so, declares a mistrail, or finds them innocent? What do you do with them?

    You can't deport them, because you brought the to the US, you can't capture someone in a foreign country and then bring him against his will to the US and then place him in deportation proceedings, the law specifically does not allow this. Now you have to bascially "ask them to leave" which means that you have to get some other country to issue them a travel document and accept them. Good luck with that!

    So you are going to have terrorists, guilty as hell, and free as a bird, most likely KSM will be on the faculty of a college in Chicago in a few years.
  17. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    What attorney present a case based on such evidence knowing that? If they did how could they have ever passed the bar? The answer: you don't. You base you case on other evidence. But keep over-reacting. If nothing else, it makes for a lively forum.
  18. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +97 / 31 / -3

    #75 Jersey

    What other evidence is there? I'm pretty sure that it was all collected in caves in Afghanistan?

    What is Holder going to get up there and say, "we have no admissible evidence, but he is a really, really, bad guy". These are the same people who defended them terrorist at GITMO and who gave Marc Rich his pardon, and you are going to rely on their "judgement"?

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...pt-lawyers-who-defended-jihadis-70442797.html

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/22/gitmo-lawyers/

    I wonder how many of these POS lawyers are now working in the Obama "Justice" Department?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/20/AR2009082004295.html

    Luckily we have the most open and transparent administration, so I'm sure the answers will be coming soon...............
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2009
  19. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    15,751
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +346 / 6 / -7

    You understand that they're only trying those for whom they have rock-solid evidence of guilt in NYC, don't you?
  20. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    He already confess on al-Jazeera before we captured him. We don't need his confession. Holder is also saying that he's sitting on undisclosed evidence.

    Seriously, nobody makes this case as public as it is without having a pretty good sense they're going to win.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>