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Holder says waterboarding IS 'torture'

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Jan 15, 2009.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    The Raw Story | 'Waterboarding' is torture: US attorney general-designate

    ==================================================================
    Holder was also asked whether he believed that the US president had the constitutional power to "immunize" an intelligence officer to carry out an act of torture on a terror suspect.

    "No one is above the law, the president has a constitutional obligation to faithfully execute the law of the United States," said Holder.

    "It's my belief that the president does not have the power that you have indicated."
    ===================================================================


    I'd suspect a few peeps in the outgoing administration should be getting ready for court very soon!


    Justice will come back to the Justice department.



    No offense to you 'people' who defend torture in the media and on this board, the fact of the matter is that the United States has convicted many in the past for this war crime. The fact that we gave torture the green light is a dark stain on our nation's history.
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pray For Your Country

    Stay Out Of Big City's And Tall Buildings

    Avoid Flying If Possible If You Have To Fly Profile The Passengers Yourself

    God Be With You
  3. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Also,


    Don't say "Candyman" in your mirror 5 times.

    Don't go to sleep on Elm Street or Freddy will get you.

    Hold your breath while passing a graveyard until you see a white house with black shudders.




    TORTURE CREATES MORE TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!

    its illegal, globally. What other globally illegal things are your for, child labor, slavery, mass murder, rape?


    Hate to say it Harry, but torture is in the same category as that $h!t.


    if you want torture, watch the show 24, that should get your torture rocks off.
  4. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    How does he know? He don't even know what terrorism is?

    Firedoglake Eric Holder. Lawyer For The Death Squad Terrorists’ Paymasters: Our Next Attorney General?

    Maybe Marc Rich told him.
  5. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war.

    as a lawyer, he knows this.


    morons think waterboarding ISN'T torture. and soon, those people will be called prisoners, convicted of war crimes.


    JUSTICE.
  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Lets see....


    People who think torture is LEGAL...agree with Alberto Gonzalez

    People who know that torture is ILLEGAL agree with Holder.....


    who would you hire to represent you?
  7. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    People who side with terrorists agree with Holder...............
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    God Damn America
  9. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    you can't prosecute a terrorist under the LAW by torturing.

    once you torture you become a savage anarchist.




    saying that one who puts the law and the constitution before savegry is 'siding with terrorists' is a fear mongerer who doesn't understand a world that can only exist if there is a rule of LAW.


    quit your talking points and get ready to see a war crimes trial....keep telling yourself everything will be okay....then


    check on this:

    U.S. Senator Believes Missing American Being Held In Secret Iranian Prison


    are you cool with this man being tortured? In your world he is a 'terrorist' to the Iranians. So its cool if he is tortured, if it protects them. I'm sure torture will bring about many confessions by Robert Levinson. He will probably give up every secret of teh United States that he knows. And according to YOU...its all good.



    do you listen to yourself, or just talk to your own shadow?
  10. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Rookie

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    I am pretty confident that our Five Wise Men would rule differently.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An assinine response to a very complex problem, we should not as a country have as our policy to torture people.. if we do then we become them.. Holder should be commended for his stance.. but then again many righties are just sheeple in lock step with what their websites tell them to say.. do not think, react with rw sound bites..
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Boy (those people) over in the middle east must be laughing their a$ses off at us again, does this guy Holder have any idea what those bastards will do to an American if they want an American to talk, I wonder if Mr Holder saw the video of the savage carving off that poor little skinny English womens head while she was gurgling blood and squealing for her Mommy.

    Mr Holder,
    Do you remember the American truck driver that the terror bastards in Iraq burned alive and then hung what was left of his blackened charcoaled body up on a bridge for everybody to look at on their way home from work.

    PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY AND OUR PEOPLE

    AMERICA WILL BE HIT AGAIN BEFORE LABOR DAY 2009, LEONA PANETTY, WINDBAG BIDEN, MICHELLE AND MUSH MOUTH MATTHEWS WILL ALL BLAME GW BUSH AND HIS MOTHER.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  13. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    He just implicated many high ranking military personnel plus politicians on both side of the aisle.
  14. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Agreed!

    People think that torture, and the criticism of it is an anti-Bush stance. That is not at all. Many democrats signed off on this....

    I'm talking to you Dianne Feinstein....

    at least we have a presumptive AG who understands the law.
  15. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Those people were Blackwater Mercinaries......not american soldiers.



    Harry......come on?



    why don't you support the troops?
  16. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    So you have no problem with Holder being a lawyer for terrorists? I can not believe you idealogs today. First Patters comparing us to Hamas and Iran now you being ok with a lawyer for terrorists being AG. I knew this Country was going to go down the wrong path Monday, but sadly it has begun before than. Holy *****!
  17. 363839

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    The soldiers were convicted of torture in general. Waterboarding happened to be among the methods they used. They had worse. I'm sure of it.
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The US does not torture anybody. We are above that and the people who DO torture. Never has until the traitors in the Bush Administration decided to do it. Why? Who knows. Any military interrogator will tell you that torture is counter-productive. Most prisoners will say anything to avoid being tortured. Many will intentionally give false information.

    I think some of you Bush buddies that think torture is OK are just wierd or can't remember that we're not like other countries....We're supposed to be better than everyone else. I hope it's not some sick kind of pleasure derived from just knowing someone's getting tortured...like it makes our military some kind of mean badaszes like you see on TV shows. Tell me it isn't. When I was in the service 20 years ago, the idea of torturing the enemy was not even thought of. That's what Nazis and Japs did.
  19. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    oh please...save it. You people on this forum who pretend to know what you are talking about make me sick. The fact of the matter is we do things that are in the best interest of national security. To condemn another country for doing the same things we do, i will admit, is kind of holier than thou. But the things we do in the dark confines of our interogation cells are needed to protect each and every one of you. The same people who complain about what we do to bad guys are the same that will be pissed when terrorists blow up another U.S. building. It reminds me of this, one of the greatest quotes of all time...

    Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.
  20. DarrylS

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    It is not about a specific ideology, but about the issue of torture.. it is very clear to me that we should not as a country support torture.
  21. 363839

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    Would you torture if it was to save your own child?
  22. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I've remained on the sidelines on this thread ... I don't see waterboarding as torture ... I've tried ... I just don't see it.
    Does it affect the physical body of that person in the future as physical maiming type tortures would ... for the most part no. Unless the person being tortured were to have a heart attack or some type of seizure.
    I've gotten bashed for this ... whatever ... is the truth received from this method? It's better than nothing IMO.
  23. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    You mean if she was being held by a gang in a box in a basement and they were trying to get ransom from me and I found someone who I thought knew where she was and I could get in, kill all the kidnappers and rescue my daughter?...Yes.
    What does that have to do with the government torturing POW's?
  24. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Answer your own question...is the truth received from this method?
  25. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    At least you are honest, I appreciate that. Fact of the matter is that the Geneva Convention was agreed upon, and our nation prosecuted soldier specifically for using this technique. Its illegal. We will see if the AG decides to prosecute those who okayed it as OUR representatives, and what the legal system decides. We now know that in his view of the law, it is aginst world law, and US law... just as John Yu's sees it differently. Kinda sad that we are debating the validity of the opinion of John Yu vs the Geneva convention.

    For those Bush backers, and supporters of these methods. This will be your badge.
  26. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Maybe, but does everyone who agrees with Holder siding with terrorists?
    Huh? What about that?
  27. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Holier than thou bullsh!t, Boxer. That's a scene from a movie from a fictional character. Is that what the military is doing to you guys these days? Treating works of fiction as if they are reality? How about John Wayne movies or Audie Murphy crap. That's all nice, but scenes from movies are not for us to live our lives by or conduct foreign policy.

    Who makes you sick? Civilians who say they don't want the government torturing prisoners? Well tough sh!t, man. You're doing a good job, I'm sure, but that "We'll do whatever we see needs to be done and you should just go back to sleep in your beds and keep your mouth shut" jive doesn't work in the United States. No matter what your CO's tell you, you work on our behalf. You do what the civilian government decides is right. We don't have to take insults from you because you think you're some kind of hero.

    Save it for the freakin movies.
  28. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    What are the statistics for waterboarding vs other methods?
    I agree .. truth is a problem here ... 4 and 5 seem like torture also.

    It's a tool available to get information ... that's how I see it.

    What methods of getting the truth quickly are available?

    A quick search gave me these 6 interrogation techniques.

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  29. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I don't know how effective it is.
    I've just heard too many pros in the military say that torture is counter-productive. I admit that I'm no expert on torture. I just have yet to hear one instance where it has been successful...not ONE. Have you? If it don't work, why use it? Have our soldiers ever ratted out their units during turture in the past? That doesn't count signing "confessions", either.
  30. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know it wasn't a soldier, I said "American truck driver" my point is he was a human being who was burned alive, then beheaded (kids were kicking his head like a soccer ball) then what was left of him was hung up on a lamp pole.
    The same people that call Bush a monster for pouring some water up a savages nose look the other way when a Muslim carves off a human head.

    That skanky old scumbag Nancy Pelosi said she vomited when she saw the picture of a pedophile muslim murderer with ladies underwear on his head in the Abba Dabba prison but she didn't bat an eye or even mention the poor bastard that had his tongue cut out on Al Jazeera Muslim Bastard news.

    If pouring water up one guys nose will save the lives of 3000 innocent people I say drown the bastard dead than chain drag him down Pennsylvania Ave, drown his friggin dog too.

    KILL THEM BEFORE THEY KILL YOU
    DEPORT AUNT ZUCCHINI
    NO TENTS IN THE ROSE GARDEN

    GOD DAMN AMERICA

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