Hindsight Being 20/20 what would you have done?

[PatsFanStnfrd]

The trade of a low 3rd for a likely high 2nd next year with Carolina seems like a great deal.

But our DE/OLB depth is still atrocious. Remember last year when everybody was talking about how Woods and Crable would step up, and we shouldn't worry about it? Well here we are again.

Apparently the Pats were on the phone with Everson Griffen and ready to take him before Carolina called with the offer for pick 89. It seems like he would have had great value there and would have addressed a major need, which Cunningham alone didn't come close to filling.

We needed to upgrade both OLB spots, and we still could use another strong but athletic 4-3 end.

Given the similarities between Cunningham and Griffen (About the same size, Griffen faster and stronger, but lazier), perhaps Griffen shouldn't have been the pick, but Sapp was still available as well and would have been a nice compliment to Cunningham.

Think about how much we gave up for Burgess last year in an act of desperation. We're likely to be in an equally desperate situation come this pre-season.

Getting the future (high) second rounder was great, but if/when we come up short again next year because our biggest need was once again not fully addressed in the draft, it might be hard to justify.

If we had just drafted Barwin instead of Brace last year, we wouldn't have needed to trade the farm for Burgess, and could have taken Cody instead of Cunningham this year, and we would have been more competitive last year.

This could very well be the last year for both Brady and Moss on the Pats.

I'm hoping that Spikes can play and excel this year on the outside as well as inside, ala Maualuga with the Bengals (in their 4-3).

If so, then my concern is lessened and we should be in good shape with a great extra 2nd rounder as well.

Right now, our OLBs seem real sh#tty against the run, and in coverage as well.

Much to agree with in your post. Last year was a bad year all-round for the Pats personnel evaluation -- specifically for trades (Lewis, Burgess) but also in terms of how blithely they passed on Clay Matthews, Maualuga and other LBs in the draft. No LB it seemed had the combination of physical attributes and skills to play for NE. They did score on Vollmer, unearthed a gem in Edelman and we will find out what we have in Chung and Butler this year.

The opportunity cost of these mistakes -- giving u a third and fifth in this year's draft to Oakland and another 5th to the Iggles for Lewis -- is high. The Pats paid for it in their poor defensive showing last year and this year, they could have used a couple of those traded picks to add the likes of a Griffen.

To their credit, the Pats seem to have circled the wagons -- eschewing FAs (not their own), and focused on drafting players who were leaders on their college teams. They also made up for lack of a third and a fifth by trading down (but not out of early rounds) -- though they chose to spread the wealth across offense and defense as well as between line and skill positions. This contrasts with Pittsburgh which went linebacker heavy while Phili focused heavily on defense in early rounds. In many respects, this is a statement draft for the Pats. Whether this draft strategy will yield impact players in positions of need remains to be seen.

 

[mgteich]

There may have been trades that could have been, within the draft, and for players. But I think we need to ignore that. Belichick probably did as well in trading picks as anyone could have expected.

I have NEVER said this after a draft, but, in 100% hindsight, I would not change ANY of our top 10 picks. I presume that Dunlop and Cunningham were properly evaluated, and the right choice made. Clearly, Belichick had the information he needed to make the choice.

SOME REALITIES
A) We took care of business in the first two rounds as we had requested. We could not have done better than draft a CB, TE, OLB and an ILB. And it seems that we got tremendous value when we picked.
B) Second level needs were met with the next three picks (WR, TE and P). These were clearly the best available at their positions. Hernandez was a steal. We even traded a pick forward.
C) And then we hopefully made a Pryor/Edelman pick or two out of Larsen, Welch and Deaderick (C, OT and DE).

Sure, I would have liked a guard early. I would not have been shocked with Asomoah at 53, or even Pouncey at 27 if he were there. But I do understand that we can draft a starting OG next year if we need to. One of Dunlop/Cunningham was just too much to pass up to fill a potential 2011 need.

 

[patsfan-1982]

over all right now it looks like they filled a lot of holes but if i had to nit pick



i would have liked one more pass rusher like Greg Hardy,

 

[AzPatsFan]

The trade of a low 3rd for a likely high 2nd next year with Carolina seems like a great deal.

But our DE/OLB depth is still atrocious. Remember last year when everybody was talking about how Woods and Crable would step up, and we shouldn't worry about it? Well here we are again.

Apparently the Pats were on the phone with Everson Griffen and ready to take him before Carolina called with the offer for pick 89. It seems like he would have had great value there and would have addressed a major need, which Cunningham alone didn't come close to filling.

We needed to upgrade both OLB spots, and we still could use another strong but athletic 4-3 end.

Given the similarities between Cunningham and Griffen (About the same size, Griffen faster and stronger, but lazier), perhaps Griffen shouldn't have been the pick, but Sapp was still available as well and would have been a nice compliment to Cunningham.

Think about how much we gave up for Burgess last year in an act of desperation. We're likely to be in an equally desperate situation come this pre-season.

Getting the future (high) second rounder was great, but if/when we come up short again next year because our biggest need was once again not fully addressed in the draft, it might be hard to justify.

If we had just drafted Barwin instead of Brace last year, we wouldn't have needed to trade the farm for Burgess, and could have taken Cody instead of Cunningham this year, and we would have been more competitive last year.

This could very well be the last year for both Brady and Moss on the Pats.

I'm hoping that Spikes can play and excel this year on the outside as well as inside, ala Maualuga with the Bengals (in their 4-3).

If so, then my concern is lessened and we should be in good shape with a great extra 2nd rounder as well.

Right now, our OLBs seem real sh#tty against the run, and in coverage as well.

Barwin went long before the Brace pick. So it couldn't have happened. Perhaps instead of Chung, but I still expect Chung to be a stalwart SS, and we needed Safety help.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I assume you mean at 42. If he's on the board at 43, he's a Ratbird.



It would appear that BB felt there was more value elsewhere and/or a lot of the replacements are already on the team.

If you look at it, the Pats are aleady grooming not only the intermediate Offensive line of the next three to four years, but the next generation one after that too.

Long range we have Volmer, LOT, Bussey, LG, Ohnberger/Larsen C, Connolly RG, Levoir RT In the mean time the present starters will gradually leave in th next four years so pencil them into positions.

For example an intermediate next generation line composed of Light, Mankins, Ohrnberger, Kaczur, Volmer.

 

[patchick]

Barwin went long before the Brace pick. So it couldn't have happened. Perhaps instead of Chung, but I still expect Chung to be a stalwart SS, and we needed Safety help.

Nope, Barwin was drafted #46, after Brace. I was hoping for him then, and I still wish we had him now. Such is life.

 

[Marqui]

i would have liked one more pass rusher like Greg Hardy

Can't argue with that.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

How BB could pass on a kid that excelled against the run while playing in our defense in college is unfathomable.

Um, Bill actually drafted a kid that excelled against the run while playing in our defense in college.

 

[Charles Barwin]

That's Deadrick, right? He seems like a great pick and a potential contributor of significance, but we're still short on 4-3 ends. Griffen and Hardy could have contributed something both as 4-3 ends and as situational linebackers.

They were both first round physical talents, and Hardy in the late rounds seems particularly hard to not regret.

We sure have a ton of tackles and 3-4 end projects though.

I'm hoping Burgess comes back at this point.

 

[captain stone]

Now let me start by saying I was happy with our overall draft. The trades while frustrating at the time watching were fantastic moves. This is just a fun exercise to see what alternatives we could've come up with.

22 - I would have taken Dez Bryant. The talent was too great to pass up IMO. Randy Moss said himself he likely won't be a part of this team next year. The WR class might be better next April, but the need for another deep threat is NOW. Granted this kid Taylor Price looks like a burner, so who knows.

44 - Rob Gronkowksi. Pat's nailed that selection IMO. He may need time to develop, but in the long run he could be one of the greatest TEs of all time.

Trade 47 & 119 to AZ for 58 & 89 as they did.

Trade 53 to NO for 64 & 94

58 - Jared Veldheer
64 - Jon Asamoah
89 - Corey Wootton
94 - Austen Lane
6th rd comp - Kyle Calloway
7th - Max Hall QB BYU
7th rd comp - Brandon Deaderick
7th rd comp - AJ Jefferson
7th rd comp - Brandon Lang

Obviously I felt the OL needed to be addressed more than most.

What would you have done different?

I liked the trade-downs in the 1st round. I felt it was imperative to recoup the 3rd-rounder (& 5th-rounder) foolishly thrown away for Derrick Burgess.

27) CB Kyle Wilson; less physical than McCourty, but a better cover corner. Plus he returns punts which, as of now, we still have nobody capable/experienced of doing, unless you're willing to risk Kevin Faulk's health there.

44) OLB Sergio Kindle; risky at 27, but a No-Brainer at 44 once Koa Misi was off the board. Who cares if he might need micro-fracture surgery by the end of his rookie contract? He would have automatically been the best player at the position at which we have our greatest need.
Gronk was too much of an injury risk; unlike Kindle, he has actually missed time due to injury - as in an Entire Season - because of a bad back, which usually never really goes away.

53) WR Golden Tate; great value at a position of clear need. His familiarity with the basic offense plus his YAC ability places him ahead of the other avail. WRs despite his lack of ideal height.
Cunningham was over-drafted by AT LEAST 2 rounds. Horrible, horrible pick.

62) SILB Brandon Spikes; good value at another position of need. His instincts Must be able to overcome his obvious lack of natural speed, otherwise we could have another Freddie Roach on our hands.

90) This one's a little tough. I really like the Taylor Price pick: he has the size & speed, plus he's one of the best blocking WRs in the draft. However, if I've already drafted Golden Tate, then the need for another 2nd-day WR has been mitigated.
There's value to be had at DE in the persons of Corey Wootton & Everson Griffen. Neither are natural 3-4 DEs, but when healthy & motivated, both are very disruptive in the backfield. I would have leaned, I think, toward Griffen beacuse he's healthier, stronger (32 reps @ 225), more athletic and just a bit closer to a 3-4 DE's weight than Wootton. Why not take a chance at the end of the 3rd round on a borderline first-round talent and hope that his pilot light fires up at either 3rd-down DE (plus a dozen lbs) or Willie Mac-style Elephant 'Backer (less a half-dozen lbs)?
Wootton's advantages are better height to add bulk, better on- and off-field IQ, and better intangibles. If you prefered Wootton, I would've understood.

113) TE/HB Aaron Hernandez; despite his dalliances with the Holy Ganja, he offers good value plus a dimension that the less-risky Dennis Pitta can't match: big-play & YAC abilities. Even if Bill had drafted Ben Patrick in '07 and kept David Thomas, Hernandez would have complemented them because of their superior short- & intermediate-range skills, and their superior blocking - though neither of them will ever make us forget Grahambo. And because I would not have drafted Gronk, who might have gone to Baltimore at 43, Hernandez would have filled a position of need.
OLB Ricky Sapp would've been tempting, too. Perhaps if Ozzie Newsome - aka The Best Drafter in Football - had taken Kindle at 43, then I might've been persuaded to take Gronk at 44, then Sapp at 113 - but I would nevah, evah have drafted both Gronk & Hernandez: too many other positions of need to fill.

150) C Matt Tennant; I don't know if The Zoltan is even the best Punter in the draft, never mind if he's worth the 150th pick in the draft. He's dangerously slow getting the ball off his foot, and is only OK directionally.
Dan Koppen has to go, the sooner the better - for Brady's health, and the health of our inside running game. Just as BC alum Koppen replaced BC alum Damien Woody, why not have BC alum Tennant replace Koppen? Tennant has more height to add bulk than Ted Larson, is just as strong, is more athletic, and has more experience on the OL. He's the unanimous 2nd-best Center in the draft after Pouncey, and is worth the 40 spots ahead of where Larson was selected.
Other possibilities better than The Zoltan were: pass-rushing DEs Greg Hardy & Austen Lane - if he could add a dozen lbs; run-stopping DEs Arthur Jones & Clifton Geathers; WRs Riley Cooper, Carlton Mitchell & David Reed; and power RBs Jonathan Dwyer & Anthony Dixon.

190) I include this pick because I would not have traded it to Oakland just to move from 44 to 42. If Ozzie wanted Gronk at 43, then he could have him. I'll take Kindle, thank you.
At 190, I would've narrowed my options to: WRs Dezmon Briscoe, Joe Webb & Blair White; RBs Charlie Scott, Lonyae Miller & Jamie Starks; H-Backs Dorin ****erson & Jameson Konz; OTs Selvish Capers & Kyle Calloway; DE CJ Wilson; OLBs Brandon Lang & Lindsey Witten; and SS Myron Rolle.
If a DE hadn't been chosen at 150, then I would prob. lean towards CJ Wilson based on need & value. 32 reps @ 225 added to his athleticism suggests to me that he could work as a 3-4 DE despite his lack of ideal height.

205 & 208) If I don't have 190 and didn't use 150 on Arthur Jones or Clifton Geathers, then CJ Wilson is def. one of my 2 picks here. The other can now be used on The Zoltan. If he's gone, then Matt Dodge or Brent Bowden will do just nicely, thank you.
If I have 190 and used it on Wilson, then Dante can have his newest pet project at 208 - LT Selvish Capers, not the short-armed, lead-footed Tom Welch.

247, 248 & 250) One of these is for Blair White; the other is for Lindsey Witten.
250 can be used on Tom Welch, if Bill insists, but only if 208 wasn't used for Capers.
It could also be used on a DB such as SSs Darian Stewart or Harry Coleman, FSs Donovan Warren or Brian Jackson, or CBs AJ Jefferson or David Pender; or on RBs Lonyae Miller or Andre Dixon; or on FBs Rashawn Jackson or Manase Tonga; or on Kade Weston as a more athletic, yet still stout NT; or on local dudes like ILB Mike McLaughlin or TE Scott Sicko.
Hell, just so we can hear the PA announcer say his name, let's make #250 "Scott Sicko".

Ask, and Ye shall receive. You're welcome.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Captain, that was nicely thought out. I actually agree with most of your picks.

I'm pretty pleased with our draft, overall, but I would not in the least bit mind your draft instead. That's probably the first time I've ever been able to say that! But props are due, so nice job. Appreciate the effort.

I'll write up one this evening when I'm back from errands. Hope mine is as well thought through as yours is.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I would have traded our entire draft for Ndamukong Suh. That's a lot easier then figuring out 12 players to take after the draft

Ok... Mike Ditka, step away from the keyboard, slowly! LOL, glad you didn't run our draft.

 

[captain stone]

Captain, that was nicely thought out. I actually agree with most of your picks.

I'm pretty pleased with our draft, overall, but I would not in the least bit mind your draft instead. That's probably the first time I've ever been able to say that! But props are due, so nice job. Appreciate the effort.

I'll write up one this evening when I'm back from errands. Hope mine is as well thought through as yours is.

Thanks; and you can thank the Ruins for pooping the bed last night as the reason I had more time on my hands to write such a long-winded post than I thought I would have.

I'm also OK with the draft overall.
I really feel that McCourty, Gronk - IF healthy, Spikes, Price & Hernandez will have good if not spectacular careers here.
The Zoltan must find a way to execute his punts sooner without losing distance; otherwise, the Aussie guy might have a better chance to win the job than it appears he does at the moment.
Larson should beat out Wendell, Connelly & OBurger for the backup Center job; but I just don't see him ever being more than a backup, and we need a starter - now.
Welch is TC fodder & PS filler, nothing more.
Deadheaderick has obvious authority issues, and is too unathletic to ever be more than a run-stuffing 5th DE. He & Weston should instead gain another dozen lbs and challenge Brace for the backup NT job. (Just thinking of Brace gets me pissed-off that we don't have Connor Barwin.)
Zac Robinson seems like a completely wasted pick that should've been used instead on Blair White or Lindsey Witten. He's not nearly the athlete that Julian Edelman is, so I doubt that he could ever successfully transition to WR; and he's not good enough to become a decent 3rd QB, either.

But the one pick that may very well define this draft is the Cunningham pick - at #53, of all places. I still believe that he would've been available 3 rounds later, at #150. Our talent at OLB is pathetic, and to these eyes Bill has done nothing whatsoever to address our most pressing need. If Cunningham doesn't perform as if he has a future here, then this draft will not be nearly as productive as it should've been - and Brady will be one year closer to retirement...without a 4th ring.

Edit: to correct a mistake from my previous post. P Brent Bowden was selected by Tampa at 172 of the 6th round, so he would not have been avail. at 190, 205 or 208. Matt Dodge would've been Plan B, anyway.

 

[jsull87]

Thanks; and you can thank the Ruins for pooping the bed last night as the reason I had more time on my hands to write such a long-winded post than I thought I would have.

I'm also OK with the draft overall.
I really feel that McCourty, Gronk - IF healthy, Spikes, Price & Hernandez will have good if not spectacular careers here.
The Zoltan must find a way to execute his punts sooner without losing distance; otherwise, the Aussie guy might have a better chance to win the job than it appears he does at the moment.
Larson should beat out Wendell, Connelly & OBurger for the backup Center job; but I just don't see him ever being more than a backup, and we need a starter - now.
Welch is TC fodder & PS filler, nothing more.
Deadheaderick has obvious authority issues, and is too unathletic to ever be more than a run-stuffing 5th DE. He & Weston should instead gain another dozen lbs and challenge Brace for the backup NT job. (Just thinking of Brace gets me pissed-off that we don't have Connor Barwin.)
Zac Robinson seems like a completely wasted pick that should've been used insted on Blair White or Lindsey Witten. He's not nearly the athlete that Julian Edelman is, so I doubt that he could ever successfully transition to WR; and he's not good enough to become a decent 3rd QB, either.

But the one pick that may very well define this draft is the Cunningham pick - at #53, of all places. I still believe that he would've been available 3 rounds later, at #150. Our talent at OLB is pathetic, and to these eyes Bill has done nothing whatsoever to address our most pressing need. If Cunningham doesn't perform as if he has a future here, then this draft will not be nearly as productive as it should've been - and Brady will be one year closer to retirement...without a 4th ring.

I understand your sentiment but it's i think a little unfair to dismiss kindle's injury then in the same sentence say gronkowski's injury concern is why you didn't pick him. He has had surgery to fix his back where as kindle may need surgery on his knees and you only have to look at someone like martin for the nuggets to see what micro fracture knee surgery can do for your explosiveness. I don't mind the preference at cb as that is a style thing. But in reality i am pretty happy with the draft. i like most people am fine with mccourty in the 1st but wanted odrick but after that i am pretty happy with what we got except i don't know much about cunningham

 

[captain stone]

I understand your sentiment but it's i think a little unfair to dismiss kindle's injury then in the same sentence say gronkowski's injury concern is why you didn't pick him. He has had surgery to fix his back whereas kindle may need surgery on his knees and you only have to look at someone like martin for the nuggets to see what micro fracture knee surgery can do for your explosiveness.
I don't mind the preference at cb as that is a style thing. But in reality i am pretty happy with the draft. i like most people am fine with mccourty in the 1st but wanted odrick but after that i am pretty happy with what we got except i don't know much about cunningham

I smell what you're cooking re: Kindle's health & other issues. If Koa Misi were also avail. at 44, I would've taken him - & his motor & health & intangibles - over Kindle.
But desperate times call for desperate measures, and our talent situation at OLB is beyond desperate, bordering on hopeless. Kindle would've at least provided a little hope for a little while.

I'm OK with McCourty in the 1st round and the intelligence, integrity & toughness he brings (the anti-Stomper Meriweather, if you will). If Kyle Wilson - and his added punt return abilities - were already taken, then I would've been completely on board with the decision, too. I'm really just picking nits at this point.