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Hillary at the debates

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by STFarmy, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    I assumed, hands down, that Hillary would be the nominee in '08 for the Democrats. Her performance last night is garnering a lot of criticism even from the media, however; seems like she might have to pull some smooth political moves to make up for this one. The primaries are still far off, but getting closer all the time, and it seems like another performance like this one (provided it gets as much attention) might jeopardize her chances. Check out the factcheck article below:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/hillarys_high-stepping.html
     
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Although Hillary's not my first choice and I have a lot of respect for FactCheck, I think this particularly article of their's was a bit forced.

    Regarding release of materials, even they point out:

    "There are just six archivists to sort through what the library's Web site says are 76.8 million pages and 1.85 million photos. Even if she wanted her correspondence with Bill Clinton released, it's not clear that the documents would be processed before the election.

    But while she may also be correct that other presidents haven’t allowed access to communications between themselves and their wives before the 12 years were up, none of those wives were running for president themselves – and holding out their experience in the White House as a qualification for election."

    As far as driver's license for illegal immigrants, she did not say it should be done but said the idea makes sense. That's actually how many people feel. By giving illegals driver's licenses, you're giving them the opportunity to learn to properly drive and follow the rules, which is important to the individual state, but conflicts with national objectives.

    Here's what Hillary said according to the NYT (though Russert persisted and Hillary also said what FactCheck reported, which is the same thing, but less clear):

    SEN. CLINTON: Well, what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability. So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum. I believe we need to get back to comprehensive immigration reform because no state, no matter how well-intentioned, can fill this gap.

    As far as Social Security, the Democratic strategy since Bush got elected has been that the Social Security crisis isn't imminent. That was a way to prevent Republicans from destroying it. It's a tactical move, but it is true the system is not in crisis. It will be in, I think, about 20 years.

    And, FactCheck's saying Hillary contradicted herself on torture, when she had once said, that torture should not be part of American policy but now says that in a case of imminent danger, torture can be used. I don't think that's a contradiction. We should never codify torture, just as I would guess we should never codify some of the steps the Bush administration took in the days following 9/11 (when the police were stopping virtually any Arab looking person in some places). Obviously, there are times when we all agree drastic steps must be taken, but they should not be matters of policy. They should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
     
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The American people will never ever elect this women to be their President, she is far worse than Kerry when it comes to flip flopping, she will not give a straight answer that she might have to be accountable for later down the line.

    Her plans are made in her devious little dishonest mind, once elected and when the honeymoon is over she will turn into a Far Left Wing Socialst Dictator.

    Pant Suit Hillary WILL be nominated but she will never be elected, Hillary Clinton will be the greatest thing that could ever happen to the Republican Nominee.

    Pant Suit Hillary will be the sole cause of another Republican being elected President of the United States (Landslide)
    :bricks:
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What are her main flip flops?

    That's conspiracy talk. Do you really believe that? You could, there are a tiny number of people on the left who think Bush will find a reason to cancel the next elections, but I think they're awfully paranoid.

    Right now, the polls aren't showing that, but of course anything can happen.
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    She's such a total fony. Truly a person who will get elected at any cost. The question presented to her was a simple one, yes, or no. She couldn't answer it because she's a fraud. Of course, the next day, minus the stage and in full damage control mode, her aides took a stand for her. In typical appologist fashion, she chose the sell out side over the American people.


    October 31, 2007, 4:13 pm

    A Day Later, Clinton Embraces Spitzer’s License Effort

    By Adam Nagourney

    A day after she appeared to struggle to give her views on the subject, Hillary Rodham Clinton offered support today for Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s effort to award New York driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants, as her campaign sought to contain potentially damaging fallout from what her own supporters saw as a tense and listless debate performance.

    Mrs. Clinton’s statement affirming her support of Mr. Spitzer in his office came less than a day after she offered a muddled and hesitant position on the bill, prompting a round of denunciations by her opponents. It signaled the extent to which her advisers viewed that moment as the biggest misstep she made in the debate, and one with long-term potential to undermine her candidacy.

    “Senator Clinton supports governors like Governor Spitzer who believe they need such a measure to deal with the crisis caused by this administration’s failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform,’” her campaign said.

    Mrs. Clinton’s aides said her statement was intended to signal that she broadly supported Mr. Spitzer’s goal of awarding driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. Mr. Spitzer initially proposed a blanket program of awarding full-fledged driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants; in the face of sharp opposition from the Legislature, he backed off and presented a two-tier program system of awarding licenses to illegal immigrants.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/31/a-day-later-clinton-embraces-spitzers-license-effort/
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I always point to the late 90's & SS when trying to show how FOS each party is. I remember Clinton giving his SOTU speech in '99, talking about SS and how it was in trouble. He talked about private accounts and investing in the stock market, while the pubies would say he was crazy, and everything was alright. Now, GW wants to "fix" SS, and it's the other side that says everything is alright. Political parties make me laugh. Now, Hillary is saying there isn't a problem. That's funny cuz 8 years ago her husband was saying otherwise. It's a sad game they all play.

    Bill Clinton SOTU speech January 19, 1999:


    Today, Social Security is strong. But by 2013, payroll taxes will no longer be sufficient to cover monthly payments. And by 2032, the trust fund will be exhausted, and Social Security will be unable to pay out the full benefits older Americans have been promised.

    The best way to keep Social Security a rock-solid guarantee is not to make drastic cuts in benefits; not to raise payroll tax rates; and not to drain resources from Social Security in the name of saving it.

    Instead, I propose that we make the historic decision to invest the surplus to save Social Security.

    Specifically, I propose that we commit 60 percent of the budget surplus for the next 15 years to Social Security, investing a small portion in the private sector just as any private or state government pension would do. This will earn a higher return and keep Social Security sound for 55 years.

    But we must aim higher. We should put Social Security on a sound footing for the next 75 years. We should reduce poverty among elderly women, who are nearly twice as likely to be poor as our other seniors -- and we should eliminate the limits on what seniors on Social Security can earn.

    Now, these changes will require difficult but fully achievable choices over and above the dedication of the surplus. They must be made on a bipartisan basis. They should be made this year. So let me say to you tonight, I reach out my hand to all of you in both houses and both parties and ask that we join together in saying to the American people: We will save Social Security now.

    Now, last year, we wisely reserved all of the surplus until we knew what it would take to save Social Security. Again, I say, we shouldn't spend any of it, not any of it, until after Social Security is truly saved.
     
  7. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    All that matters is the CFR vote. She has that already... so, read it and weep. Wino.

    She will make baby bush look good... which would be pretty hard to do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2007

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