Hightower/Collins

[RobertWeathers]

I agree Butler is a great talent but BB has won superbowls with Elite as well as marginal talent in the secondary.

I dunna know about that. You can argue that one either way

2001- Elite
2003- Elite
2004- Gay/Asante/Brown/Poteat at CB which was absolutely average but at SS you had elite and Geno Wilson was a stud before his body started to fail him.
2014- Elite

I thought their secondary in 2007 was above average. Asante was borderline elite. Hobbs was average. Rodney was average and everyone else was average.

2011- Ugh.

Not marginal linebacking talent.
If you look at those Superbowl winning teams all great to elite Linebacking corps.
If Hightower doesnt make that amazing stuff at the goal line Butler isnt ever a household name and is looking at a contract in the 5 plus range.
Because he made a hell of a play on the biggest stage he is now worth double that.

I tend to agree. That play was huge. It was big time exposure for him. When you play wellin big games that raises your $$s.

5ft 9 defensivebacks are out there with good to great cover skills.
6ft4 linebackers who run like clydesdales can play all over the field and can be put on a back a tight end or at times slot receiver are not in the back of the first rounds at times not even top 10.
We lucked out with Collins because he played on a losing team and our scout team saw past that.

Yep- Collins is a different player but just as effective. Someone will pay him.

If Collins hits free agency he will never come back.

With the money flying around in FA it would not surprise me.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

I will be sick if we lose Collins

 

[A man named Brady]

The core of our defense the next 5 years will be Hightower/Collins/Brown/Butler

 

[grux]

I would be shocked if we lose Hightower, Collins or Butler to free agency. The pats have plenty of cap space to sign them all and BB realizes the importance that each one of them brings to the team.

 

[JMC00]

Just an FYI on the Pats cap space in future years

'17- $62m (2nd most)
'18- $95m
'19- $135m

and expect those figures to increase as the cap continues to go up.

Hightower and Collins will be re-signed. Bill craves great LB play and Collins and Hightower could be the best LB duo for the next 4-5 years.

 

[Ivan]

Just an FYI on the Pats cap space in future years

'17- $62m (2nd most)
'18- $95m
'19- $135m

and expect those figures to increase as the cap continues to go up.

Hightower and Collins will be re-signed. Bill craves great LB play and Collins and Hightower could be the best LB duo for the next 4-5 years.

It depends upon what they are asking. I agree they want to keep them but the money shelled out in the last free agency was absurd and if they want 90 million dollar deals they will be getting them somewhere else. If they want Keuchly deals it will be doable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm wondering how the Pats will catagorize them. Will they put them in the Kalil Mack/David/Irvin bucket as 4-3 OLBs or the Kuechly/Cushing/Lee ILB bucket. It matters as the latter has seen contracts with more AAV and guaranteed $

I think we can all agree that High and Freak are both in the top 5 at their position regardless. They will get paid.

 

[Gronkowski123]

pay both of them! shouldn't be a problem.

seattle are paying top dollar for wilson, sherman, earl thomas, kam, bobby wagner, and some others and we can't afford top dollar on two our best players?? even with tom taking a massive paycut. besides gronk and mccourty who else is making top $$$

 

[rkarp1]

I'm wondering how the Pats will catagorize them. Will they put them in the Kalil Mack/David/Irvin bucket as 4-3 OLBs or the Kuechly/Cushing/Lee ILB bucket. It matters as the latter has seen contracts with more AAV and guaranteed $

I think we can all agree that High and Freak are both in the top 5 at their position regardless. They will get paid.

while we think they are top of game, interesting to note, will come up in negotiations I am sure, High has never been a pro bowler.

 

[patsinthesnow]

2017 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Dont'a Hightower OLB 26 NE TBD $7,751,000 UFA
Jabaal Sheard DE 27 NE TBD $6,812,500 UFA
Sebastian Vollmer RT 32 NE TBD $5,208,334 UFA
Martellus Bennett TE 29 NE TBD $5,185,000 UFA
Marcus Cannon LT 28 NE TBD $4,754,168 UFA
Rob Ninkovich DE 32 NE TBD $4,750,000 UFA
Alan Branch DT 31 NE TBD $2,750,000 UFA
Jonathan Cooper G 26 NE TBD $2,388,955 UFA
Chris Long DE 31 NE TBD $2,375,000 UFA
Terrance Knighton DT 30 NE TBD $2,018,750 UFA
Logan Ryan CB 25 NE TBD $1,811,813 UFA
Duron Harmon SS 25 NE TBD $1,804,400 UFA
Matthew Slater WR 30 NE TBD $1,766,667 UFA
Jonathan Freeny ILB 27 NE TBD $1,737,500 UFA
Brandon Bolden RB 26 NE TBD $1,272,500 UFA
Jamie Collins OLB 26 NE TBD $1,196,682 UFA
Aaron Dobson WR 25 NE TBD $1,090,845 UFA
Markus Kuhn DT 30 NE TBD $1,087,500 UFA
LeGarrette Blount RB 29 NE TBD $1,025,000 UFA
James Develin FB 28 NE TBD $750,000 UFA
Nate Washington WR 32 NE TBD $680,000 UFA
E.J. Biggers CB 29 NE TBD $680,000 UFA
Donald Brown RB 29 NE TBD $680,000 UFA
Ramon Humber OLB 29 NE TBD $676,250 UFA
Frank Kearse DE 27 NE TBD $665,000 UFA
Bear Pascoe TE 30 NE TBD $600,000 UFA
Joe Vellano DT 27 NE TBD $600,000 RFA
Brock Vereen FS 23 NE TBD $600,000 RFA
Cameron Fleming G 23 NE TBD $600,000 RFA
Vinnie Sunseri SS 22 NE TBD $600,000 RFA
Malcolm Butler CB 26 NE TBD $600,000 RFA

The 2017 offseason is unnecessary worry IMO with 60+ million in cap space once Amendola is released after the season.

Am I over simplifying it for thinking there are only five players that we should definitely resign? Butler can be slapped with a 1st round tender leaving us with 60 million for four players.

Ninkovich, Vollmer, Branch, Long will all be age 32+ on the decline. Keeping them won't cost much and if you want to they should be cheap.

Slater, Develin, and Blount are close to vet. min type re signings. Slater a tad more.

Ryan and Harmon are goners. They will be paid in FA as starters and we have some of the best depth in the NFL at CB & S.

Reserve 10 million for the draft and emergency season cap. BB will have 50 million to retain Collins, Hightower, Sheard*, and Bennett. It honestly shouldn't be difficult when first year cap hits are usually the lowest out of a contract.

*If Sheard has a 15+ sack season then he's probably gone and pass rush/OT/RB will be the top needs in next year's draft.

---------------------

In short: I don't understand where the cap is going if you let one of Hightower or Collins walk.

 

[RobertWeathers]

while we think they are top of game, interesting to note, will come up in negotiations I am sure, High has never been a pro bowler.

Yep but I gotta funny feeling he will be paid like one

 

[PatsBoy12]

I agree Butler is a great talent but BB has won superbowls with Elite as well as marginal talent in the secondary.
Not marginal linebacking talent.
If you look at those Superbowl winning teams all great to elite Linebacking corps.
If Hightower doesnt make that amazing stuff at the goal line Butler isnt ever a household name and is looking at a contract in the 5 plus range.
Because he made a hell of a play on the biggest stage he is now worth double that.
5ft 9 defensivebacks are out there with good to great cover skills.
6ft4 linebackers who run like clydesdales can play all over the field and can be put on a back a tight end or at times slot receiver are not in the back of the first rounds at times not even top 10.
We lucked out with Collins because he played on a losing team and our scout team saw past that.
If Collins hits free agency he will never come back.

He did that in an era when the league was still run first to set up the pass. He's not getting away with that in today's game. We lost SB's in 2007 and 2011 largely because of secondary deficiencies.

May I ask you to list give 5'9" CB's with great cover skills?

 

[slash83]

Why not both?

 

[PatsBoy12]

while we think they are top of game, interesting to note, will come up in negotiations I am sure, High has never been a pro bowler.

Yeah, but the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest mostly. There are guys who make it every year who don't deserve to make it based on play. There was a year, for example (and I have many), when Revis made it but had no business on that team. I don't put much stock in that at all.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Chris Price had a juicy nugget this morning. Doesn't guarantee High stays but the team clearly thinks very highly of him.



Sunday NFL Notes: What does Dont’a Hightower’s new locker location say about his status with the franchise?

Wow that's pretty huge... I can't imagine them letting Hightower walk if that is how the organization views him as a leader. There are a lot of big Linebacker contracts to use as a template for Hightower, none of which are too outrageous.

Its a very interesting problem to have with so many good players on the roster that have contracts coming up, you have to decide which pro-bowl talent you want to keep and who you feel you can survive without. Even with Chandler Jones gone, the decisions are difficult!

These are the contracts they have to decide on;

Premium Contracts:
Collins
Hightower
Sheard
Butler (They still have his rights for 2 years, but they'll want to consider extending now because #1 CB conttracts will continue to go up)

High Cap Hit contracts;
Solder
Bennett
Vollmer
Harmon
Ryan

Medium Tier Contracts;
Ninkovich
Knighton
Long