Hightower agrees to deal

[Kontradiction]

The deal is done, and now the real work begins. Let's get it done on the field.

If this defense can get Carter back, then I see no reason they can't repeat the upper half scoring defense that they had last year. I think yards will still be given up. That's just the way the league is at this point. Offenses are wide open. If they can stay in the upper half of the league in scoring defense, continue to force turnovers, and make opposing QB's miserable (no necessarily just piling sacks), I really think this team can go a long long way.

Of course they will be given up. However, the goal is the limit those yards by a good margin over 2011. That's what the mostly defensive minded draft was all about. That's what the defensive moves in FA to address problem areas were all about. Cut down on yards given up causes a cut down on T.O.P. which also causes a cut down on bad field position when the defense does make a stop which causes an increase in T.O.P. for our offense which, in turn, will cause to more points put up. Are yards given up the most important stat for a defense? Nope. Are they important, though? Absolutely.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Of course they will be given up. There hasn't been a team in the history of professional football that has held an opposing team to 0 yards of total offense. However, the goal is the limit those yards by a good margin over 2011. That's what the mostly defensive minded draft was all about. That's what the defensive moves in FA to address problem areas were all about. Cut down on yards given up causes a cut down on T.O.P. which also causes a cut down on bad field position when the defense does make a stop which causes an increase in T.O.P. for our offense which, in turn, will cause to more points put up. Are yards given up the most important stat for a defense? Nope. Are they important, though? Absolutely.

Respect. I think you know what I meant by what I said. I obviously WAS NOT saying that 0 yards would be given up. I'm not going to waste time trying to explain what I feel you already know. I respect you and your posts, but some of the smart ass comments on this board are over the top.

Regarding your "defensive minded" draft, I think that it had more to do with getting off the field on third downs and at least making opposing QB's uncomfortable in the pocket by giving the teams some impact playmakers. Does all of that play an indirect part in the yards argument, yes. However, I doubt BB or any other coach is as worried about yards given up. Even when the Patriots had dominant defenses teams were still able to drive the ball down the field on them. The difference was they stiffened up in the red area and they were better on third downs.

 

[Kontradiction]

Respect. I think you know what I meant by what I said. I obviously WAS NOT saying that 0 yards would be given up. I'm not going to waste time trying to explain what I feel you already know. I respect you and your posts, but some of the smart ass comments on this board are over the top.

No problem. I actually knew what you meant which is why I edited out, but couldn't get to it in time because a co-worker came over and slapped a load of work on my desk at that time. My apologies.

Regarding your "defensive minded" draft, I think that it had more to do with getting off the field on third downs and at least making opposing QB's uncomfortable in the pocket. Does all of that play an indirect part in the yards argument, yes.

Third downs, field position, and time of possession are all either direct or indirect variables to yards allowed.

However, I doubt BB or any other coach is as worried about yards given up. Even when the Patriots had dominant defenses teams were still able to drive the ball down the field on them. The difference was they stiffened up in the red area and they were better on third downs.

This is untrue. Check the stats area on NFL.com and go by yards for defenses for the 2003 and 2004 defenses. You can even do it with the 2006 defense as well. Those defenses never allowed a ton of yards. And the dynasty era defenses, outside of 2001 and 2003, all operated under the Polian rules.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

It's about 8:00AM July 19th, and rookies arrive at Gillette today! I can picture Hightower at the player's caf sitting down to a dozen scrambled with about 3 bagels, 6 sausages, and a big glass of chocolate milk!

Eat up Bubba, it's time to rock! :rocker:

Enjoy the big helpings now rook, because when Wilfork gets to camp...

 

[PatsBoy12]

No problem. I actually knew what you meant which is why I edited out, but couldn't get to it in time because a co-worker came over and slapped a load of work on my desk at that time. My apologies.

No problem. As I said, I've always respected you and your posts. Furthermore, I absolutely agree with your overall premise in that post.

Third downs, field position, and time of possession are all either direct or indirect variables to yards allowed.

I said that in my response.

This is untrue. Check the stats area on NFL.com and go by yards for defenses for the 2003 and 2004 defenses. You can even do it with the 2006 defense as well. Those defenses never allowed a ton of yards. And the dynasty era defenses, outside of 2001 and 2003, all operated under the Polian rules.

The numbers won't tell the story because, as you said, the rules were different. However, if you go back and watch the games you'll see that there were many times in stretches where teams drove up and down the field on the Pats. The difference was that they were very good on third downs, especially in the years you reference. They also made big plays because they always had someone to step up (Ty, Rodney, Tedy, Vrabel, Mac, etc.). Someone always seemed to make a key play or two to end critical drives.

If you're comparing the numbers from today's yards allowed versus years ago, you have to consider that the numbers will be inflated after 2007. The Patriots took the league by storm with the spread. Defenses are still (years later) trying to figure out how to slow it down. Add the fact that teams can't maul receivers like they used to (thank Indy), you get the ridiculous statistical numbers of today. Think about it, were there any QB's throwing for over 5000 yards in the earlier part of the millennium? That's why guys like Dan Marino and Warren Moon are celebrated. They did it in a time when holding, clawing, scratching, etc. were permitted. It's hard to compare stats because the way the game is played has changed so drastically. It's a passing league now, whereas it was a running league in the years your reference. Numbers, in this case, don't tell the whole story, I guess.

 

[Kontradiction]

The numbers won't tell the story because, as you said, the rules were different. However, if you go back and watch the games you'll see that there were many times in stretches where teams drove up and down the field on the Pats. The difference was that they were very good on third downs, especially in the years you reference. They also made big plays because they always had someone to step up (Ty, Rodney, Tedy, Vrabel, Mac, etc.). Someone always seemed to make a key play or two to end critical drives.

Those rules changes went into effect in the 2003 offseason after Manning and the Colts got blitzed at the Razor. Here are the numbers for the seasons after that, in regards to YPG:

1. 2004: 9th
2. 2005: 26th
3. 2006: 6th
4. 2007: 4th

Then compare it to 2011...

5. 2011: 31st

This franchise and our coach have shown that we can be a great defense when it comes to YPG in the era of passing offenses and rules changes. I suspect that tightening up in that area, amongst many, was an essential reason in the offseason moves on that side of the ball.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Those rules changes went into effect in the 2003 offseason after Manning and the Colts got blitzed at the Razor. Here are the numbers for the seasons after that, in regards to YPG:

1. 2004: 9th
2. 2005: 26th
3. 2006: 6th
4. 2007: 4th

Then compare it to 2011...

5. 2011: 31st

This franchise and our coach have shown that we can be a great defense when it comes to YPG in the era of passing offenses and rules changes. I suspect that tightening up in that area, amongst many, was an essential reason in the offseason moves on that side of the ball.

That may be true, Kontra, but spread offenses didn't become the rave until 2007 after the Patriots ran through the league and came within one or two plays of being undefeated. The rules may have changed after the 2003 season, but the game didn't change as drastically until much later. Quarterbacks throwing for 5000 yards a season will become more commonplace if the game continues to be played like it has in recent seasons.

If you compare what was considered a good defense as far as yards given up back then to what's considered good today, you'll see that it's different. Even the really good defenses of today would be considered "middle of the pack" defenses in the earlier part of the millennium in yards allowed. Games, more-or-less, are won now by winning the turnover battle (more so than before) and keeping teams out of the end zone. Those things were always important, but in a league now where teams are only hoping to contain offenses, those things become even more important.

 

[Kontradiction]

That may be true, Kontra, but spread offenses didn't become the rave until 2007 after the Patriots ran through the league and came within one or two plays of being undefeated. The rules may have changed after the 2003 season, but the game didn't change as drastically until much later. Quarterbacks throwing for 5000 yards a season will become more commonplace if the game continues to be played like it has in recent seasons.

If you compare what was considered a good defense as far as yards given up back then to what's considered good today, you'll see that it's different. Even the really good defenses of today would be considered "middle of the pack" defenses in the earlier part of the millennium in yards allowed. Games, more-or-less, are won now by winning the turnover battle (more so than before) and keeping teams out of the end zone. Those things were always important, but in a league now where teams are only hoping to contain offenses, those things become even more important.

For one, the Colts were more or less running an early form of the spread in 2004. We shut them down. For another, the spread can be stopped or slowed down. Look no further than what the 49ers did to the Saints and what the Giants did to us in the Super Bowl for the two most recent examples. For a third, more quarterbacks are throwing for more yards today than they used to because there are a higher percentage of franchise caliber quarterbacks than there were earlier in the 2000's. However, they can still be stopped or slowed when it comes to yards allowed. It's been shown time and time again since the Polian rules were adopted, and one of the teams that has shown it has been the Bill Belichick era Patriots.

 

[PatsBoy12]

For one, the Colts were more or less running an early form of the spread in 2004. We shut them down. For another, the spread can be stopped or slowed down. Look no further than what the 49ers did to the Saints and what the Giants did to us in the Super Bowl for the two most recent examples. For a third, more quarterbacks are throwing for more yards today than they used to because there are a higher percentage of franchise caliber quarterbacks than there were earlier in the 2000's. However, they can still be stopped or slowed when it comes to yards allowed. It's been shown time and time again since the Polian rules were adopted, and one of the teams that has shown it has been the Bill Belichick era Patriots.

Okay, I concede. We are, and will remain, at an impasse. You can claim victory because I'm bowing out. Respect and peace.

 

[Kontradiction]

Okay, I concede. We are, and will remain, at an impasse. You can claim victory because I'm bowing out. Respect and peace.

Either way, we all agree, I'm sure, that we're looking forward to some much welcome improvements on the defensive side of the ball this year.

 

[signbabybrady]

Are we giving Dont'a a nic name? With this association (above), do we call him Bubba or Moses?

I always joked whenever I was watching Hightower, the RB who played for Zona and I believe is or was a FA this year, and called him Bubba Smith so no doubt I will be carrying that lame joke onto Donta.

 

[Deus Irae]

According to Aaron Wilson of scout.com, Hightower’s contract is worth $7.7 million, with nearly $6.3 million fully guaranteed.

It Is What It Is » Report: Dont’a Hightower’s contract worth $7.7M, with roughly $6.3M guaranteed

So he didn't get that full 4th year guarantee.

 

[supafly]

It Is What It Is » Report: Dont’a Hightower’s contract worth $7.7M, with roughly $6.3M guaranteed

So he didn't get that full 4th year guarantee.

Nope. Neither did DeCastro who was one slot above him. I think that made the negotiations a bit easier in the end.

Even C.Jones at #21 'only' got 750k guaranteed. Times are hard for 1st rd NFL players these days (in the slots post #20), at least in regards to a 4th yr guarantee

 

[Deus Irae]

Nope. Neither did DeCastro who was one slot above him. I think that made the negotiations a bit easier in the end.

Even C.Jones at #21 'only' got 750k guaranteed. Times are hard for 1st rd NFL players these days (in the slots post #20), at least in regards to a 4th yr guarantee

I know that you're joking about the times being hard, but the players really did screw themselves with this deal. What's worse is that they didn't put in an escape clause, so they're stuck with it for 10 years. I'm amazed that Smith hasn't been tarred and feathered yet.

 

[Sciz]

I know Kontra edited it out, but if you count sack yards, two teams have held their opponents to negative yards for a game
Team Game Finder Query Results - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Joker]

In the game in the bedroom between the sexes...I, Joe Kerr, have unfortunately been held to "negative yards" far,far too often..also "thrown out at home" , "off the back broad" and "missed the net" too many times to remember...I am the board "Mongo"...

 

[Kontradiction]

I know Kontra edited it out, but if you count sack yards, two teams have held their opponents to negative yards for a game
Team Game Finder Query Results - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Yeah but they still didn't hold the opposing offense to 0 yards total offense, so there.

 

[supafly]

I know that you're joking about the times being hard, but the players really did screw themselves with this deal. What's worse is that they didn't put in an escape clause, so they're stuck with it for 10 years. I'm amazed that Smith hasn't been tarred and feathered yet.

I think the tarring and feathering is inevitable, Deus. I agree that Smith has made some WTF moves, and is probably a pretty poor example of a leader to begin with. I'm no expert on union reps and leaders, but it seems as though there is just something missing there--at least to me. There seems to be an issue with possible experience, communication, overall intelligence, and maybe even ego too. I can't put my finger on it yet.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think the tarring and feathering is inevitable, Deus. I agree that Smith has made some WTF moves, and is probably a pretty poor example of a leader to begin with. I'm no expert on union reps and leaders, but it seems as though there is just something missing there--at least to me. There seems to be an issue with possible experience, communication, overall intelligence, and maybe even ego too. I can't put my finger on it yet.

In the end, the players really didn't have any REAL pain. Thats why they caved. Essentially they needed to make sure they didn't get royally screwed (when they actually did). They liked the previous deal. The only substinitve thing the players got was to force the owners to spend up to 9/10s of the cap. woop-de-do.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

In the end, the players really didn't have any REAL pain. Thats why they caved. Essentially they needed to make sure they didn't get royally screwed (when they actually did). They liked the previous deal. The only substinitve thing the players got was to force the owners to spend up to 9/10s of the cap. woop-de-do.

They got a bunch of health and safety concessions that was all the union could hang it's hat on securing when the cap went flat and actually regressed, but they don't seem to realize they could have had all those for nothing... Owners could care less about conditioning time and practice limitations and coaches have never had any say when it comes to collecively bargaining rules.

De wll be around until at least March of 2015 after being swiftly re-elected before the realization that the cap will remain flat at best thru 2014 and not spike until 2016 if ever and Goodell retains all the power had time to sink in... Wait 'til they figure out all the money that is being wasted on Kessler and Co. filing grievances and doomed to fail law suits precluded by that very CBA De just locked them into is all for show and coming out of their pockets, too.

Eh, who are we kidding. They will probably re-elect him again by acclamation. Easier on the ego to circle the wagons and insist you did good than admit you got bent over...