Welcome to PatsFans.com

Higher taxes on the wealthy may pay for national health care

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +270 / 11 / -11

    This is a good proposal:

    House Dems propose tax on wealthy to fund health care - CNN.com

    Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee on Friday proposed a graduated tax on wealthy Americans to pay for health care reform, several Democratic sources told CNN.

    The new tax would apply to individuals who make more than $280,000 a year and married couples who make more than $350,000, the sources said.

    Individuals making up to $400,000 and couples making up to $500,000 would be assessed a 1 percent tax on their adjusted gross income, they said. A higher rate would apply to individuals making up to $800,000 and for couples making up to $1 million per year, and an even higher rate would apply to individuals and couples with higher incomes.
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    First, before the usual crew calls me selfish AGAIN, I would not be subject to this tax so stuff it.

    Moving on.

    I still don't see why "wealthy Americans" should pay for the health care of others. The fact that you breath doesn't entitle you to health care.

    The numbers are very sketchy to me. It's iffy that the total won't go over $1T. And the "projected savings from health care reforms" of $500B sounds very unreliable.

    All this talks about is how to collect $1T, the bigger issue is the plan itself. That's the real sticking point right now.

    I have no doubt it could come in a lot lower and cheaper if you eliminated illegals, mandated participation for those who can afford it and gave a bare bones insurance policy to those who really can't afford it - for the big catastrophic stuff not for all the B.S. that a regular run of the mill insurance plan covers that it doesn't need to.

    Anyone can just stick it to the rich, there's no thinking there.
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +270 / 11 / -11

    Wealth is not a right, it is a privilege that comes with being part of a nation that does things well. We have a stable government, a trustworthy currency, a functioning economic system, a very good transportation system, an excellent education system, a good degree of personal safety, a strong military, and so on. It costs a lot of money to have those things. But, those things help generate enormous national wealth, so the investment is worth it. The people best positioned to profit off of national health insurance are the well-to-do who have access to superior investment people and who have money to invest.

    There is no way for the tax system to be fair in the way you mean, unless everyone paid the same dollar amount, which of course is unworkable. When you look at fairness, you have to look at the whole picture -- all the costs and benefits of our country. And, I think you know that lately my view of taxes is that they are simply a tool for managing our economy. Now is a time to raise, them, but that doesn't mean other economic conditions will require lowering them.
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    I have no problem with the rich paying a higher percentage but it should only be for things of national necessity. In my opinion, tooth cleanings, cholesterol drugs and the like don't qualify.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +270 / 11 / -11

    That gets into a different discussion. Perhaps the companies that market high cholestorol products should pay for the pills? But, also there are a lot of people who require cholestorol medications for reasons other than bad diets. That said, I think our nation is way over the top with prescription drugs, but an effort to change that would be opposition from doctors, pharmaceuticals, and the worried well, among others.
     
  6. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The numbers I saw a few days ago were $200K single, $250K married, sorry no link, forgot where I read it. Boston Globe maybe?

    So who pays when the system runs into huge cost overruns? Another 1% on the rich?

    I think it is important that everyone has the opportunity to have health insurance to allow access to the preventative care that could save money long term, but I would like to see that done within the framework of our current spending. Actually I would LIKE to see the way health care plans work fundamentally changed to more of a catastrophic insurance and tax free savings for health expenses. This would place the onus on the individual to decide if a procedure was frivolous that doesn't exist now. If I've got a sore back and my doc says go get an MRI I'll do it if Blue Cross covers it without bothering to ask if the $2000 MRI is really going to tell me anything worthwhile. It would also generate competition among docs for business that doesn't exist now. I pick my doctor not knowing what he charges, but I'd sure know if I was paying to see him! This all has a roughly 0% chance of happening though so I guess I'll get back to the proposal at hand and say that now is not the time for all these new spending programs! We as a country are doing exactly what we asked the individual to stop doing. We're getting a loan for more house than we can afford by playing games with our credit. Opening a new credit account to buy that new TV then wondering how we're going to make the minimum payment. Frustrating, to me at least.
     
  7. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,981
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    no......wealth is a right........

    you are ever so wrong.........when the wealthy are reduced, where is the money going to come from then?

    the wealthy also have the ability to take assets and income and move it offshore......that's what I would do......just because somebody tells me this is the way, doesn't mean I have to agree with it........

    fact is, you are promoting the ability for the government to become more wasteful than it has ever been......and that's pretty wasteful

    how about turning the screws on the millions of INCREDIBLY lazy moochers in this country? way too many people have made a choice out of being poor
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +270 / 11 / -11

    We have 37 million people living under the poverty line ($13k for a family of 3). The theory is that they end up costing us more because they only go to the doctor when their illness gets out of hand. The hope of national health care is to implement a strong preventative medicine program, which would save a lot of money down the road.

    I think health care is a vital part of economic recovery. Capitalism thrives on an economic dynamic and projects like health care and the climate bill will generate it, causing all sorts of shifts of capital and new investments.
     
  9. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The idea of national necessity also makes me think of the sad fact that people in this country don't take care of themselves, too much food and not enough exercise, and under these programs were now going to be dealing with providing healthcare for those that don't do the necessary prevention at home. The logical next step is then to try and ban the foods that make the people fat. Give me a choice between "pubic funding for health insurance/banning unhealthy foods" and "private plans with a public backstop for the poor/let me eat my damn cheetos and cake, I keep myself in shape" and I know which I'm taking.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    The vast majority of drugs are unnecessary. That goes for cholesterol, high blood pressure, dry eyes, etc, etc. If you want them buy them. Otherwise go for a mile walk every day (or blink more for dry eye; it works for me, my optometrist prescribed me special eye drops, it's crazy). The last thing we need is more people getting free drugs.
     
  11. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Those people are already covered by Medicaid, and I'm fine with that continuing. I don't want to cut off assistance to the poor, I want to change the system for the middle and upper class to focus on a market-based solution. Actually I'm still thinking about this/researching, but I wonder on average which way comes out ahead, to have my employer pay my insurance in its current form, or to have a much cheaper, catastrophic program and to get the extra money they pay now added on to my paycheck and placed into a tax free account, which I could use if needed or pay tax on at the end of the year and keep for me.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,093
    Likes Received:
    190
    Ratings:
    +270 / 11 / -11

    In some ways I agree, but not sure about cholesterol drugs. If they really prevent heart attacks, they might be cost effective for a national health care system.
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    No it's not. If we "would save a lot of money down the road" we wouldn't be talking about adding $.5T (that's HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS) of taxes over 10 years. You guys keep saying we'll save money but have to spend more. It makes no sense. It will COST a lot of money not save a lot of money - that's why they're raising taxes.
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    I realize we all have our own stories but I suspect my wife is typical. She stays at work too late so she doesn't exercise and doesn't eat right. So she takes high blood pressure and cholesterol drugs. She'd be far better coming home earlier and taking a lengthy walk. Do SOME people really need the drugs ? I have no doubt. But I bet it's 25% of those who take them at most, probably closer to 10%.
     
  15. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Why should anyone pay a higher percentage? Isn't that why you use percentages?
     
  16. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Wow. People earn their money. Because they are successful, they should pay the health care bill of those that can't or won't? That's outrageous.
     
  17. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,633
    Likes Received:
    218
    Ratings:
    +516 / 13 / -12

    #24 Jersey

    I get it but I also get that a family of four making less than, say, $35K just needs every dollar. In theory I agree with you. In practice I see the need for some percentage brackets. But I don't agree with making the rich pay everything given that they pay almost the entire income tax already.
     
  18. TripleOption

    TripleOption Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I'm all for it. If you had the slightest clue just how incredibly abused and wasted our tax dollars are in the SSI/SSDI and welfare systems, you would be for cutting it as well.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,152
    Likes Received:
    224
    Ratings:
    +539 / 6 / -2

    This is really something people should think about, and probably don't. Why should person A pay for person B's cholesterol drug, when person B makes no effort to control their diet? Obviously some people have more serious conditions, but how many people go to the doctor, and get a drug prescribed, so they can avoid making personal sacrafices? Feel sad? Here's some zanax or prozac. Eat a lot of bad foods and have high cholesterol? He's some Lipitor (is it Lipitor?), and keep eating 2 donuts every morning. Weigh 300 pounds and have bad knees? Well, don't bother trying to lose weight, we'll treat you for life.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,152
    Likes Received:
    224
    Ratings:
    +539 / 6 / -2

    Imagine someone saying that. Meanwhile said person believes that some dead beat, or illegal, does have a right to your money. The breaking point is really closer than we think.

    A lot of people in here don't know. Unless you work in a related field, you probably wouldn't. The system is totally broken.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>