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Herman Cain Flouts the Constitution

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jun 9, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Hey, PF13 - isn't this your guy? (Or one of 'em, anyhow?)

    Doesn't the Constitution forbid this kind of thing? Isn't there some provision there that guarentees freedom for all religions?

    Isn't it kind of ironic (or maybe moronic) that he wants people to show extra proof of loyality to a document which clearly states that no man should ever have to do such a thing?


    GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain said any Muslim who wants to serve in his potential administration would have to show proof of loyalty to the United States Constitution.

    BECK: So wait a minute, are you saying that Muslims have to prove, there has to be a loyalty proof?
    CAIN: Yes, to the Constitution of the United States of America.
    BECK: Well, would you do that to a Catholic or a Mormon?
    CAIN: No, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t because there is a greater dangerous part of the Muslim faith than there is in these other religions. I know there are some Muslims who talk about but we’re a peaceful religion. I’m sure that there are some peace-loving.


    GOP Candidate Herman Cain: Muslims Need Proof of Loyalty
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
  2. patsfan13

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    Perhaps he is taking note of Jihadist like the Maj Hassan who ignored his oath to uphold the constitution and shot 42 people in the name of his religion. It is a basic premise of Islam that one's duty is to the religion and not to civil authority. The premise is that it has both a civil and a religious component, hence the movement towards Sharia where all aspect of society are controlled by Islam. This is the movement in the ME (see the Muslim Brotherhood, the Taliban, Al Queda the mullahs in Iran and so on).


    What would be unconstitutional on having members of a religion large parts of which have said they want to destroy the USA confirm they don't subscribe to this ideology?
     
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If you are ignorant enough of The Constitution, American and everything they stand for to ask that question, PF13, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to even entertain the idea of wasting even 3 minutes of their time trying to educate you.
     
  4. DarrylS

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    It is sad when someone defends what he said... the right seems to believe that the constitution is a situational document...
     
  5. DarrylS

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    Hassan was not appointed to serve in anyone's administration.. different scenario.. .
     
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    In fairness to Cain, he might still be getting confused about which is the Constitution and which is the Declaration.

    (Of course, we've already learned that many pubbies don't really care about either one, or anything else about US history, as long as they conflict with their chosen ones' words...)
     
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    as opposed to Christianity, and other religions?


    Actually, I would have thought that all members of each administration swear an oath to uphold the Constitution, etc.

    Now, if you want Muslims to swear a separate oath, then you're really no different than the bigots who feared (as some surely still do fear) a Catholic President having loyalty to the Pope ahead of our nation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
  8. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, they do. Everyone takes an oath of office and agrees to uphold the Constitution.....Maybe Mr. Cain does not know that.

    However, I think he does know it because he made sure he specified that Muslims would have to make a special declaration - one that he would not ask Catholics or Jews or anyone else to make.

    Bigoted, indeed. There's no other word for it. Substitute any other word for Muslim - female, black, gay, Catholic, Jewish, etc., and it would suddenly become a really bad thing to say....except to misogynists, white supremacists, homophobics, Irish Protestants, or Anti-Semitics.




    ,
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
  9. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    OT: It's always interesting to me when members of one persecuted group opts to treat members of another group the same way.

    First saw it directly at a company I worked at where the 2 senior partners both were Jewish and were fairly sensitive to slights against Jews, despite often making similar jokes themselves and feeling free to make jokes about other groups. None of that really bothered me, though, especially the jokes about Jews (I don't buy the "double standard" laments a few folks here so often whine about). But it did bother me when they outright disciminated in their hiring. Women, Asians, homosexuals, Indians... all dismissed from consideration under the vague rubric of "doesn't seem to be our kind of guy." Just white males. (as an aside, I noticed over time that 1 partner really seemed to like tall, athletic males... we never really delved into that :) )

    And more recently saw it with the reports of gay marriage allegedly losing here in CA because of the large influx of black voters supporting Obama. I don't know if that contention was ever borne out, but I do believe blacks and hispanics tend to oppose gay rights disproportionately, something often attributed to religious views. If true, it's an interesting phenomenon. Are they unaware of the hypocrisy? is it the "crabs in a bucket" idea?

    I guess most of it probably comes down, again, to the fact that we're all human...
     
  10. patsfan13

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    Very much as opposed to any major religion at this time. If you have an example where murder in the name of the religion is favored by well > 20% of the believers I would love to see it.
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Murder?

    Please re-read what I bolded from your post, 13...
     
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    My theory is that they(some persecuted groups)look at it as payback....like they are justified to insure that karma happens. I think it actually helps perpetuate a cycle of persecution from one group to another then back to the other then back to the other over and over again. "Helping" the situation get jump started is the notion that the original persecuted group gets one set of rules for speech and behavior and the original persecuting group gets another. This phenomenon is actually encouraged and promoted by some people. It's politically correct to allow for this. Now each group can always point to the hypocrisy of the other group to justify there own...only they think its karma. Add that to the just being human nature of people( a large part of it) and you have this recipe for never ending persecution.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I think that's possible...I think it's also that no one wants to be at the bottom of the heap - if you can make someone appear lower than yourself that makes you feel "higher" on the totem pole.

    It's maybe mostly fear....fear that if no one is lesser than you are then you, by default, are the lowest of the low.

    Unfortunately, one of the ways we have learned to make ourselves feel better is to make someone else feel worse.
     
  14. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    yeah, an old boss of mine would say some people want to have the biggest building in town and they think the way to achieve that is to go around and knock down anyone else's that had a bigger one leaving theirs the biggest, or you could achieve it by actually building a bigger building....his way of motivating us to do better.

    EDIT: That explains the human nature side of this, which is a major ingredient. I still think the karma cycle aspect fits in some groups in various degrees
     
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  15. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    I'm guessing "BECK" is Glenn Beck...and WOW! he actually reads as the sane one in this interview. Maybe Beck isn't as psycho as I thought!
     
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    LOL Yeah, I know...says something about Cain, doesn't it?
     
  17. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    I can't stand people who make it obvious that they view themselves as "better" than others. I also hate bearing witness to people who work their butts off in some imagined effort to be among the "better class".

    I guess that's an inherent negative of capitalism. You have to weigh the good against the bad.

    No matter how hard any human works to be "better" than others, the will remain who they are...just another bozo on the bus. Now, does that mean everyone deserves the same? Of course it doesn't. I think in the end, we deserve whatever we got. and that's not really a bad thing.

    As long as we work hard to better ourselves and do it with values and integrity, we can hold our heads as high as anyone. And if we can achieve that, we might even enjoy life more than the "better people". ;)
     
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  18. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    Years ago, I worked with a man who was Jewish and we got to talking politics. Eventually, he said his allegiance was to Israel, not the US. I'll admit, that bothered the hell out of me since he was born in the US and was a citizen.

    I tried to argue that being Jewish is a religious choice, not a choice of loyalty to a nation. but he wouldn't have any of it. I have no idea if this is common among Jews or not. But I found it perplexing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Really? Does the kid born with Down's Syndrome deserve it? The 32 year old who gets pancreatic cancer? The people in the Twin Towers on 9/11?

    People don't "deserve whatever they get," PR - unless you think everyone who's currently out of work "deserved" to lose their jobs or every woman who's ever been battered by her husband deserved to be beaten.

    There are tons of things which happen in life which are beyond the control of those they happen to.

    And yeah, I consider that a bad thing.

    Unavoidable, perhaps, but still bad.
     
  20. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    Ah, I thought someone would bring up such examples. And my reply is that they deserve it as much as anyone else who has those sicknesses. No one "deserves cancer or any other disease, but the fact is, someone WILL get them, so why not them or me or you?

    It's not fair and life isn't fair. No one deserves to be extremely wealthy more than anyone else either, but some achieve it, some inherit it and most others never experience it.

    Maybe "deserve" is a poor choice of words. But if I get cancer and say, "I don't deserve to have cancer". The answer is neither did the 104 million who have gotten it before me. Do I deserve NOT to get cancer?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011

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