Here's How I'd Get Samuel Done

[patpatriot]

If Asante reports week 10 and plays until week 16 doesn't that fulfill his contractual obligations? I don't think he's reuired to play in the post season to accrue his NFL benefits.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Wow, I can't say I had thought of that.

How many old white reporter heads would explode if a player sat out the playoffs? Asante would be painted as the antichrist. It would follow him the rest of his career. It would redefine "I play when I feel like it" and the media would never forget it.

Part of me wants to see it happen, just to see exactly what would happen.

 

[Pats726]

I think he's serious about reporting at week 10 because it minimizes the possibility of the 2 bad things happening.

I am not sure he minimizes being injured..he's not been through training camp and will be coming in with a greater chance of being in "game shape." More chance of injury...not less. I also do not see him coming in and all of a sudden playing up to speed...same reasons. he's not been with the team. MORE than likely, the team will find other solutions to the CB problem. SO it will take time for him to get back to the lineup. There is teh possibility of injuries and bad play but there is also a possiility that he will come back Week 10 and be more a back up. That may NOT help his chances either. I would say it MAY add instead of minimizing those bad outcomes...and he will lose millions by sitting. I think that is more of a gamble for him.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: samuel wants serious money

The ill-will issue after 10 games out is bogus. It's fan projection, not player attitude. Players figure business is business. Were Asante to return after week 10 to fill needed depth because of inevitable injury at CB, the players on this team would be happy. By that time they're beginning to think playoffs, despite the 'one game at a time' mantra. So is BB. He'll want and need a strong DB corps to face Manning & Co.

I'll tell you what's bogus. It's anyone here thinking (A). Samuel could come back in week 10 and be welcomed with open arms by BB and his teammates while immediately reclaiming his spot in the starting lineup and (B). that Samuel will play up to his potential after sitting out that long. Absolutely no way either is going to happen.

First of all, what makes anyone believe Samuel will even be given a chance to play if he sits out 10 weeks? His sitting out spells "serious impasse" between player and management, and BB is not required to either play or even activate him if I understand things correctly. Aside from that, he won't even be ready to play.

The Asante Samuel fiasco will be settled before the season starts, one way or another. My guess is that he'll be playing for another team.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Re: samuel wants serious money

I'll tell you what's bogus. It's anyone here thinking (A). Samuel could come back in week 10 and be welcomed with open arms by BB and his teammates while immediately reclaiming his spot in the starting lineup and (B). that Samuel will play up to his potential after sitting out that long. Absolutely no way either is going to happen.

First of all, what makes anyone believe Samuel will even be given a chance to play if he sits out 10 weeks? His sitting out spells "serious impasse" between player and management, and BB is not required to either play or even activate him if I understand things correctly. Aside from that, he won't even be ready to play.

The Asante Samuel fiasco will be settled before the season starts, one way or another. My guess is that he'll be playing for another team.

He is not required to play him, nor is he required to be on the game day active list. He will take up a roster spot, as soon as he signs the contract the pats will have to cut someone from the team.

BB will play the best player available at the time. if thats Asante, then AS will play. If its not, then he won't.

 

[Krazy Koz]

Re: samuel wants serious money

BB will play the best player available at the time. if thats Asante, then AS will play. If its not, then he won't.

and I don't think AS will be the best player available if he waits out till week 10. I agree this will most likely be resolved one way or another before the season, I can't wait until it is so we can concentrate on the players on the team committed to winning for the team and not some hold out "get paid" individual.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: samuel wants serious money

BB will play the best player available at the time. if thats Asante, then AS will play. If its not, then he won't.

OK, assume for a moment that Samuel does sit out 10 games and then comes back and is put into the lineup. Wouldn't that look like appeasement on BB's part? Plus, HE WON'T BE READY TO PLAY!!! It this happens, I'll eat my hat.

 

[kriskanos]

The reason Asante is so set on getting paid now is because his value will never be higher than it is now.If he takes the franchise tag and plays this year he is not confident he can replicate his stats from last year.The Patriots are pretty damn sure he wont either,therefore after his inevitable downturn this year(and it is inevitable)his contract demands will be forced significantly lower.Hes a paper Pat,who cant even get backup from other players.If the Pats were offered a first for him I think they would take it in a second,even from the Jets.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Re: samuel wants serious money

I'll tell you what's bogus. It's anyone here thinking (A). Samuel could come back in week 10 and be welcomed with open arms by BB and his teammates while immediately reclaiming his spot in the starting lineup and (B). that Samuel will play up to his potential after sitting out that long. Absolutely no way either is going to happen.

First of all, what makes anyone believe Samuel will even be given a chance to play if he sits out 10 weeks? His sitting out spells "serious impasse" between player and management, and BB is not required to either play or even activate him if I understand things correctly. Aside from that, he won't even be ready to play.

The Asante Samuel fiasco will be settled before the season starts, one way or another. My guess is that he'll be playing for another team.

I never thought Bledsoe wouldn't get the QB job back once he was healthy, and I never thought Randy Moss would be on the Patriots. You never know. What practical (non-emotional) reason would there be for him to not activate Asante?

Your one point I agree with is Asante's level of play. If need be you sit him or make him a nickel/dime back for a few games. I want Asante ready to play at a high level in the playoffs.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Re: samuel wants serious money

OK, assume for a moment that Samuel does sit out 10 games and then comes back and is put into the lineup. Wouldn't that look like appeasement on BB's part? Plus, HE WON'T BE READY TO PLAY!!! It this happens, I'll eat my hat.

If Asante is the best player available at the time...I'll pass the salt

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Re: samuel wants serious money

I never thought Bledsoe wouldn't get the QB job back once he was healthy, and I never thought Randy Moss would be on the Patriots. You never know. What practical (non-emotional) reason would there be for him to not activate Asante?

Your one point I agree with is Asante's level of play. If need be you sit him or make him a nickel/dime back for a few games. I want Asante ready to play at a high level in the playoffs.

Thats a great point.

As a fan, if he sits till week 10, and we play the colts in the ACCCG again..do you want him sitting just because, or do you want him on the field?

I say play him.

 

[mgcolby]

Ogunleye did, didn't he? And Emmit Smith. There have been others, names slip me (hell to get old), but there have been enough to say holding out ten games will not cause your knee to blow out.

Also, Bruschi was out for about 10 games after his stroke and came back and played without blowing out a knee. I kow you said healthy, but does a knee know why its owner did not play ten games?

I do realize there have been players that have done it but it always "seems" that the holdouts especially the young ones, sustain an injury shortly after returning from a holdout.

Point taken. I thought of Bruschi with the healthy comment and maybe it comes down to the veteren knowing how to keep himself in better shape and work his way back and some of the younger guys don't. I don't have an answer either way. Aside from Bruschi Orlando Pace is another guy that came to mind he missed like 3 or 4 TC's in a row because he was "Franchised" and I can't remember him sustaining a significant injury in any of those years.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: samuel wants serious money

What practical (non-emotional) reason would there be for him to not activate Asante?

Pure and simple, activating and playing him after a 10-week holdout sends a message to players that they can dictate to the organization when they play if they don't like their contract situation and want to hold out. But I'm telling you, it will never get that far with Samuel.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: samuel wants serious money

I have no problem with Samuel showing up Week 10 and us being able to push $5M into next year. Works for me. Although I'm thrilled with getting a #1 for Branch, I would have had no problem with the same thing with him - when you're looking at going deep into the playoffs there's lots of season left after Week 10.

Belichick apparently did have a problem with that scenario though since the team essentially pushed the Branch situation to effect a settlement late in camp. Only the strategy backfired somewhat in that he found there was a market for a disgruntled #1 WR holdout who hadn't yet proved to this teams satisfaction that they were deserving of an elite contract offer.

Again, I know we all want Bill to just show these malcontents who's the boss, but at the end of the day Bill is pragmatic enough that he wants to win. He tried to lure Deion back in off the ledge, but it was too late once he realized he could clear the immediate consequence courtesy of Seattle. Bill also wants his team to move on in these situations, and not get caught waiting for a late season savior who may not show up (effectively) even if he does show up. And he doesn't want the guy who fought hard enough to win the job in camp looking over his shoulder for 10 weeks feeling he could be replaced through no fault of his own at any time. But he also doesn't want to appear to be vindictive because that can polarize a locker room. Better the player be seen as the guy to whom money mattered more than team. Then they have a decision to make when their turn rolls around. Better that then they start to sour on the team concept because not only will this FO not overpay you, they won't let you go to some other fool who will.

Which is why although I believe BB would play Asante in week 10 if it came to that and if he believed he was the best available player, I don't think he will let it come to that. I think he'll either be signed long term or signed for a year with a no tag provision or he'll cave and come in on his own - or he'll be traded before week 1 kicks off.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

There's a huge difference between Deion and Asante. Deion was under contract and Asante isn't. Deion agreed to play 2006 for NE for $1.5M or so. Asante never agreed to play 2007 for NE, but is instead being forced to.

I don't see why BB wouldn't understand that the Asante fiasco falls under the "it's a business" realm. Deion's intent to break his contract wasn't standard business.

 

[Tunescribe]

I don't see why BB wouldn't understand that the Asante fiasco falls under the "it's a business" realm. Deion's intent to break his contract wasn't standard business.

Because the team would hold up its end of the business arrangement as per league and players' union rules by paying Samuel $8 million for his services under the franchise tag. There's nothing in the franchise tag language that says "You can sit out for 10 weeks if you want to." The stipulation is that if you are franchised, you must play and are paid handsomely. That's what the league and union agreed to. If Samuel decides to hold out I can see how BB would be mighty pissed.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Because the team would hold up its end of the business arrangement as per league and players' union rules by paying Samuel $8 million for his services under the franchise tag. There's nothing in the franchise tag language that says "You can sit out for 10 weeks if you want to." The stipulation is that if you are franchised, you must play and are paid handsomely. That's what the league and union agreed to. If Samuel decides to hold out I can see how BB would be mighty pissed.

There is no such stipulation that if franchised you must play. To the contrary, the player is under no obligation to the team until or unless he "accepts" the tender by signing his tag. Absent that he is the equivalent of a n unsigned FA. Can't work for anyone else, doesn't get paid until he shows up, needs to report by week 10 or he loses a year of credited service towards his pension. But you cannot fine him or discipline him for not reporting because he isn't violating a contract because he isn't under contract to you until he signs the tender. You may still hold his rights, but you have no recourse to compel him to play beyond he doesn't get paid unless he does.

 

[Tunescribe]

There is no such stipulation that if franchised you must play. To the contrary, the player is under no obligation to the team until or unless he "accepts" the tender by signing his tag. Absent that he is the equivalent of a n unsigned FA. Can't work for anyone else, doesn't get paid until he shows up, needs to report by week 10 or he loses a year of credited service towards his pension. But you cannot fine him or discipline him for not reporting because he isn't violating a contract because he isn't under contract to you until he signs the tender. You may still hold his rights, but you have no recourse to compel him to play beyond he doesn't get paid unless he does.

I neglected to note that the tag must be signed, you're right. But the question was why wouldn't BB see a 10-week holdout by Samuel as just "business" and play him when he comes back, and I don't believe BB will see it that way.

 

[jbb9s]

Why wasn' t he just signed a la Koppen during the season?. It sounds like if the deal could have gotten done before (a) San Francisco distorted the DB market and (b) Samuel led the league in INTs including 2 TDs in the playoffs.

Not blaming the Pats. What I do think is if they would have gotten it done by now if they really wanted him for the upcoming season. I look forward to three picks next April in the first 3 hours.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: samuel wants serious money

OK, assume for a moment that Samuel does sit out 10 games and then comes back and is put into the lineup. Wouldn't that look like appeasement on BB's part? Plus, HE WON'T BE READY TO PLAY!!! It this happens, I'll eat my hat.

He'll go in in week 11 or 12 in dime situations, then if he does well in nickle situations.

Also, what if we have three or four DBs on IR as has happened in the past? Think if we lose Hobbs and Gay, that BB will force Asante to sit? Don't let your hat get to dirty and don't leave it out in the sun or it'll be tough to chew.