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Help needed to show Brady's superiority...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by KnoxPatriotFan, Nov 13, 2007.

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  1. KnoxPatriotFan

    KnoxPatriotFan Rookie

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    I have searched high and low, but haven't been able to dig up a poll that was done of NFL personnel showing that close to 2 to 1 would take Brady over Manning.

    I live in Knoxville, TN (PM's alma mater) and I am constantly hearing comments that players, coaches, etc. would all take PM over Brady.

    Anyone one know have a link to this?
  2. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    IMO, anyone who claims that one guy is better than the other is full of crap.

    They're both first ballot lock HoFers, best players of their generation. There is no difference between the two besides personal bias.
  3. bradmahn

    bradmahn Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    I don't think it's crap to think Brady's better, and 65% of the league agrees.

    Here ya go.
  4. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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  5. KnoxPatriotFan

    KnoxPatriotFan Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Won't offer much arguments to both of these points. I remember seeing a poll that showed the personal bias of the people working in the NFL and their personal bias was close to 2-1 for Brady. Would be nice to have something other than BS to throw in their faces to get them to STFU.

    Anyone able to help someone out who's drowning in a sea of orange and Peyton worship? (They have a road down here called Peyton Pass, to give you some understanding of what I'm up against)
  6. Ootball

    Ootball Guest

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Let history sort it out. I don't know why people are obsessed about this.

    I grew up when Montana & Marino were QB's. If someone asks me about them now, I remember both as being genuinely great QB's. If someone puts a harsh, bright light on me, and demands to know which is better, I'll say Montana because of his titles & a few other factors.

    But generally, I'll remember they were both great & fun to watch.
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Its actually more full of crap to avoid the question and call them the same.
    They are very different. I think that physically, they end up pretty equal, the differences are not vast, and seem to equal out. I think both are very good with the cerebral aspects of being a QB, although I tend to favor Brady, based on comments made by BB (i.e. every time he comes off the field and tells him what he sees, he is seeing it exactly right) vs the impression that Manning is out-thinking people because of his machinations at the line of scrimmage. Where it separates to me is attitude. Brady is the consumate team player. Everything he does, says, and apparaently thinks is team first, all that matters is winning, while Manning consistently shows that what people think of him personally is part of his agenda. Not earthshattering, but to me there will be instances where, all things equal, you win because of Bradys attitude, and do not because of Mannings.
    I dont think its a difficult question. Brady has won more. He came to a team every bit as bad as the one Manning came to. While people want to credit BB, lets not forget that Dungy pre-Manning was much more successful than BB per-Brady, and the opposite is true since. There has always been the argument of defenses, but an equal argument of offensive talent surrounding them. This year that has turned a bit. Brady has had more weapons, and the Colts have played better defense, and Brady is DESTRYOING Manning in all statistics as well as winning. If Brady wins Championships when he has fewer weapons and more D, then also wins Championships when he has more weapons, but the Colt D has caught up, where is the argument?
    Doesn't 2007 also eradicate the stats argument?
  8. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    My guess is if you give Brady lesser weapons to throw to, he'd still win three Super Bowls, and if you took away some of Mannings' weapons for a game, he'd likely have 6 interceptions. Just a guess on my part based on what I see.
  9. Stratos

    Stratos Banned

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..


    Hey did you see the over-rated players list also - a couple of them might be recognizable
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  10. Ootball

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Well, he'll probably be without "his weapons" this weekend, also. Would you put money on the idea that he'll throw 6 again?

    I don't know; how come in these debates, I never hear the hypothetical "what if Manning had the defense Brady has had"...
  11. Stratos

    Stratos Banned

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    I know - but is a Patriots board and they only want to spoon each other, and see things through the flying head glasses. whoa is me, everyone is against us, and Brady hasn't had any WR since he was playing 4th grade pee wee and throwing to his sister (who is the best athlete in the family).

    Whoa is me....
  12. Ootball

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    I also never hear too much about the idea that maybe Peyton has an "all star cast" because good throwing has MADE them all stars. I'm not concluding that is the case, but it IS a possibility some of them might not be all-starts if, say, JP Losman is their QB...
  13. Stratos

    Stratos Banned

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    What was the sample size of the "list"? 20 players were polled. Increase the sample size to get more of an acurate reading. Also, do this poll in 05' when Peyton threw 53 tds that year.
  14. vinhividivici

    vinhividivici Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    I think you meant to say woe... yes?? One think I can be sure though that is both of them are tough QBs SOBs, i remember one time Payton was hit in the mouth so bad that broke it or something but he still played through it. In the end it's great to be able to see this generation of football regardless.
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    He has a top5 defense now, one that not only held SD without a TD, but scored one, and he threw 6 ints to lose the game.
    You do realize that in Bradys rookie year, he had a D ranked something like 23rd in the league, weapons that consisted of Troy Brown, David Patten, Charles Johnson and Fred Coleman at WR, Rod Rutledge and Jermaine (Waiver claim) Wiggins at TE, Antowain Smith at RB, and Marc Edwards at FB, and went 11-3 in the reg season and won the SB.
    Please show me the year Manning had a 23rd ranked defense and comparable weapons and won anything.

    You are seeing the answer to what if Manning had a better D (becuase he would have had lesser weapons to be able to afford it) right now. Result? 0-2
  16. Run it up baby!

    Run it up baby! Rookie

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    ROFL, whoa?
  17. Ootball

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Actually, a lot of people argued that we saw that last year, and said he finally had a good D last year. And they won the Superbowl.

    They'll probably still go 12-4 this season, at worst.

    Brady is great, and if history stopped now, he would go down as "better" than Manning. I just think some of the arguments made are a little silly.
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Very interesting. Are you Peyton Manning? Because its interesting that you said why not 2005 when he compiled stats rather than 2006 when he won a SB.
  19. Stratos

    Stratos Banned

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..


    Here is two quick questions:


    Does Peyton go to the HOF without Superbowl win? - Yes
    Does Brady go to the HOF without Superbowl wins? - No

    Brady is not even ranked in the top 50 of all - time, let alone to be considered as good as Peyton...

    Heck - it will take him 4 more years to pass the great Kerry Collins..In 4 more years, Peyton moves from his current position of 10th to 3rd, behind Favre and Marino....

    Currently:
    Manny rank 10th
    Brady rank 50+

    Not sure aobut the arguement. They both are superbowl winners, but one is far superior statistically. Manning will probably own every record, and still be a superbowl winner. While Brady will probably fall in around 25th all-time statisically, with 3 superbowls. Not sure an arguement can be made for Brady. Because stats are a reflection of the player, while superbowls are a reflection of the Team.
  20. chrisfx811

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Brady will get 3? So he's done already?

    Manning can have all the records, he's probably UT's leading passer too huh? That's impressive.

    It's been said before, what would a top notch defense have done for Manning in the choke playoff performances?
    When they put up 3 in foxboro? Is the 'd' supposed to hold the Pats to 0?
    Or 14? Is that really enough to win in the playoffs?
    Heck, they not only needed that good defense of last year to win, but they needed to play Rex Grossman and the Bears too?
    How's his playoff passer rating? You know, when it counts?

    A-rod's a great regular season performer, who may have a ton of records too, but I doubt he'll ever be considered truly great until he leads his team to the title, not tags along for the ride.
  21. AndyJohnson

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Stupid argument. First Manning has played longer. Second, Brady is destroying him in stats this year, 3rd, Manning has played in an offense that threw the ball all day, Brady palyed in an offense designed to win.
  22. bradmahn

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Not top fifty? In what? Yards?

    Completions he is 44th, Passing TDs he is tied at 39th.

    Brady has started 102 regular season games. In those 102 regular season games, he has 180 TDs and only 82 INTs. Through Peyton Manning's first 102 regular season starts, he threw 184 TDs to 114 INTs.

    Peyton's stats
    Brady's better stats
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  23. JJDChE

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..



    That's a long winded way of saying your personal bias is towards Brady.
  24. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    And fourth, I could care less about which or how many players are inducted into the HOF after their careers are over, I care about winning SBs.
    Its Brady 3 Manning 1, and YOUR GUESS that if winning wasnt a factor Manning would be in the HOF and Brady wouldn't adds absolutely 0.00000 to the score.
    Why don't you try looking at numbers based on through 6 1/2 years, which Brady has played. Please show me the QBs who were 'in the HOF if SBs didn't matter" after 6 1/2 years. By the way Brady was a lock after 4, maybe 3 years.
  25. chrisfx811

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Easy on the facts bro, Colt's fans can't interpret those.
  26. sieglo

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    Pwned. Completely.
  27. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    No.
    It is not personal bias, it is assessment.
    Bias implies the opinion is influenced by favoring one side. Mine is not. If Brady was a Colt and Manning a Patriot, I'd feel the same way. Just as when Bledose was 'statman' I didnt let the numbers cloud my judgment of him.
  28. RhodyPatriot

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    No doubt a Peyton fan.
    BIG difference between Tom Brady and Peyton Manning both on the field and in the lockerroom.
  29. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..

    You might also point out that Brady, not Manning, is tied with Staubach for most wins in a quarterback's first 100 starts.
  30. JJDChE

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    Re: Help needed to show Brady's superiority..


    Yeah, I am a Peyton fan. Just like I'm a LT fan and a Chad Johnson fan. They're great football players and I don't hold some petty vendetta against them because they wear the wrong color laundry.

    I'm a Patriots fan, so obviously I'd pick Brady.

    I don't believe there is a significant enough difference in the abilities of Brady and Manning to make a definitive choice. At some point a player is so great that it becomes pointless to try to choose one. Unitas, Marino, Montana, Manning, Favre, Brady. IMO, Choosing between those six modern era QBs, based purely on merit, is an exercise in futility.
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