Help me with the Chandler Jones love

[iapatsfan]

He weighed less than Aaron Hernandez, his 40 better be fast. Crable is not stronger than Chandler Jones regardless of the BP, thats just the tip of the iceberg. Chandler jones has really long arms which effect the BP numbers, but look at their Vertical numbers. They display explosion and lower body strength. Jones makes Crable look like the weakling he was. Crable's vertical directly reflects his terrible lower body strength, and he never passed the eye test in that area.

Jones: 35.5
Crable: 28.0

Jones and Crable are a bad comparison, Jones gives us a run stopping presence in both fronts out of the box. What aspect of Crable's game was NFL ready?

If we drafted Jones to be a run stopping presence, there were much better options. If we drafted him to be a force coming off the edge, which seems to be the consensus among the analysts, there is no evidence to show he can do that. This guy literally was caught from behind by an offensive tackle in the Pitt game after an int. He is a long athlete, so I could understand poor numbers in the 40 and 10 yd split. I have no idea how a guy that is supposed to be an "explosive" player gets run down in the open field by an OT. It was an embarassing display of a lack of athleticism. I know that is one play, but combined with almost no production against avg competition and poor combine numbers I have my doubts.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

If we drafted Jones to be a run stopping presence, there were much better options. If we drafted him to be a force coming off the edge, which seems to be the consensus among the analysts, there is no evidence to show he can do that. This guy literally was caught from behind by an offensive tackle in the Pitt game after an int. He is a long athlete, so I could understand poor numbers in the 40 and 10 yd split. I have no idea how a guy that is supposed to be an "explosive" player gets run down in the open field by an OT. It was an embarassing display of a lack of athleticism. I know that is one play, but combined with almost no production against avg competition and poor combine numbers I have my doubts.

I don't think he was brought in the be a run stopper per se, but I do feel that ability is a pre-requisite for BB to play you in the front 7. He has shown this a lot over the years passing on tons of pure pass rushers whether that was right or wrong idk. I don't think explosion and speed are the same. You can have great lower body strength and not be fast. I think Jones can be explosive but he will never be JPP or Aldon Smith because those guys have that elite speed and quickness that Jones just doesn't possess. Chandler Jones ran a 4.87 40 so him getting caught by a college O-lineman doesn't shock me honestly. Some of those college lineman are very light in the pants btw

A guy just doesn't post a 35 inch Vertical at 266 pounds without having explosion, that's physics man.

 

[Burnz1758]

This exact same situation reminds me of JPP on the Giants last year.... Hmm how did that turn out? Not to mention if Jones puts on 10-15 lbs he'll be just as much as a beast as JPP

 

[iapatsfan]

I don't think he was brought in the be a run stopper per se, but I do feel that ability is a pre-requisite for BB to play you in the front 7. He has shown this a lot over the years passing on tons of pure pass rushers whether that was right or wrong idk. I don't think explosion and speed are the same. You can have great lower body strength and not be fast. I think Jones can be explosive but he will never be JPP or Aldon Smith because those guys have that elite speed and quickness that Jones just doesn't possess. Chandler Jones ran a 4.87 40 so him getting caught by a college O-lineman doesn't shock me honestly. Some of those college lineman are very light in the pants btw

A guy just doesn't post a 35 inch Vertical at 266 pounds without having explosion, that's physics man.

Even though I disagree, let's say he'san explosive athlete. How do you explain very little production against the competition he faced? Did you see him winning a lot of one on one battles against guys that will never sniff the NFL? I didn't. Do you honestly see this guy beating guys like Jake Long and D'brickashaw Ferguson in one on one situations. I don't. The Pats' problem is they do not have enough guys that win these types of battles. I don't think Jones changes that.

 

[Spergon Wynn]

I think Jones is a pick that is for the future. I don't expect much out of this guy this year outside of a pass rush option in the 4-3. Let him bulk up a little, learn the play book, and become more versatile. This guy has a huge upside if he does these things, just don't expect too much the first year.

I say re-sign Carter and let him start and mentor Jones for a year.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Even though I disagree, let's say he'san explosive athlete. How do you explain very little production against the competition he faced? Did you see him winning a lot of one on one battles against guys that will never sniff the NFL? I didn't. Do you honestly see this guy beating guys like Jake Long and D'brickashaw Ferguson in one on one situations. I don't. The Pats' problem is they do not have enough guys that win these types of battles. I don't think Jones changes that.

What speargon said, he isn't close to being a finished product. He has room to add muscle get stronger and get coached up which will help him win later. This vs someone like Upshaw who also can't win against tackles one on one, plays poorly in space and has no more room on his frame to add bulk.

No, I don't honestly. This guy is a year away atleast(which I don't love), but he will contribute situationally immediately. But his ceiling is much higher than guys like Curry(binky) and mercilus. He isn't a pure pass rusher imo, but he could potentially be an all-around headache for offenses when you think about his elite measurables and lower body strength. He is built like the JPP and Aldon Smith doesn't have their speed but he is stronger than both these guys when you compare lower and upper body strength. He won't be one-gapping for us anyway except in our 4-3, Andre Carter will be back and he will learn from a consummate professional in 2012. Andre Carter was winning last year one on one and if he's healthy he will win in 2012.

 

[UK_Pat37]

To answer some people's questions on production, watching a lot of tape, I saw a guy that was consistently double teamed who still got pressure. His knee injury could have caused a bit of stiffness at stages during last season as I was actually impressed by his agility workouts so maybe we're not giving him enough credit int hat area. He'd have had similar production to Pierre-Paul without the injury.

The Pats still use a lot of two-gap assignments in their hybrid and if we continue to scheme like we did last season, I think Jones will have no issue doing it.

I just don't get why so many people's were bumming Brockers in the 1st round but then question this guy. Brockers has worse production (albeit in a better conference) and is much rawer on tape for me. Yet so many people would have been happy with him being picked or even traded up for himself.

If the Pats stay hybrid Jones is a much better fit.

 

[iapatsfan]

To answer some people's questions on production, watching a lot of tape, I saw a guy that was consistently double teamed who still got pressure. His knee injury could have caused a bit of stiffness at stages during last season as I was actually impressed by his agility workouts so maybe we're not giving him enough credit int hat area. He'd have had similar production to Pierre-Paul without the injury.

The Pats still use a lot of two-gap assignments in their hybrid and if we continue to scheme like we did last season, I think Jones will have no issue doing it.

I just don't get why so many people's were bumming Brockers in the 1st round but then question this guy. Brockers has worse production (albeit in a better conference) and is much rawer on tape for me. Yet so many people would have been happy with him being picked or even traded up for himself.

If the Pats stay hybrid Jones is a much better fit.

I'm not asking this sarcastically, can you attach the video or let me know what game you saw Jones beating double teams. I have not seen this, and I have tried to find all the video I can on this guy. I have seen him completely mauled by offensive lineman and even handled one on one by running backs.

I was not high on Brockers at all. In a different thread I compared him to Marquise Hill with less proven production. I don't see Brockers becoming much at all. My guy was Bruce Irvin, and I was for taking him with either of our picks in the first round. I would have preferred the Pats to go after Andre Branch from Clemson as I feel he will will be more difficult for opposing offenses to deal with. I have seen nothing from Jones that leads me to believe he will be anything more than avg. I hope I'm wrong, but the list of players who have little production in college and then turn it on in the NFL is very short. Usually if you didn't produce in college, you won't produce in the NFL.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I'm not asking this sarcastically, can you attach the video or let me know what game you saw Jones beating double teams. I have not seen this, and I have tried to find all the video I can on this guy. I have seen him completely mauled by offensive lineman and even handled one on one by running backs.

I was not high on Brockers at all. In a different thread I compared him to Marquise Hill with less proven production. I don't see Brockers becoming much at all. My guy was Bruce Irvin, and I was for taking him with either of our picks in the first round. I would have preferred the Pats to go after Andre Branch from Clemson as I feel he will will be more difficult for opposing offenses to deal with. I have seen nothing from Jones that leads me to believe he will be anything more than avg. I hope I'm wrong, but the list of players who have little production in college and then turn it on in the NFL is very short. Usually if you didn't produce in college, you won't produce in the NFL.

He wasn't 'beating' double teams, he was pushing the pocket and holding them up and demanding them. When you two-gap that's exactly what you expect of a DE playing it.

I can't attach he tape because I get sent downloads and DVDs from my source in the states and I can only use that for myself and can't name my source for it (partly through competitive edge and partly through the fact he doesn't like being named).

For the record though I watched games where he played Wake Forest, WVU, Connecticut, Cincy and Pitt.

It's really tough to really get a feel for players via YouTube..especially since most of those videos just include the highlights that are meant to try and make them look good. Plus, broadcast tape has nothing on coaches tape which you can get hold of through the proper channels.

 

[Snake Eyes]

This exact same situation reminds me of JPP on the Giants last year.... Hmm how did that turn out? Not to mention if Jones puts on 10-15 lbs he'll be just as much as a beast as JPP

Really? So one only needs to be the same height/weight as another player and they'll have the same on-field ability?

 

[Charles Barwin]

Jones' lack of production could be because he only weighed 245 until this past year, which he was injured for part of.

I'd like to see him add another 10 pounds, playing primarily 43 DE. Should be an above average run stopper and apply plenty of pressure, without taking himself out of plays like faster guys often do.

Hopefully he knocks down plenty of passes as well. Carlos Dunlap might be a good comparison.

 

[State]

This reminds me of Tubucky Jones, another Syracuse player with excellent physical size, speed, etc, who didn't exactly play at the level he was drafted at.

Does anyone else see the analogy?

 

[Charles Barwin]

Hopefully we didn't leave the next Randy Moss on the board, like we did when Tebucky was drafted.

 

[PromisedLand]

Stacey Dales is a woman, she played college ball for Oklahoma and was an all-american.

Led her team to the Final Four I believe, and also played in the WNBA for the Washington Mystics.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

I was not high on Brockers at all. In a different thread I compared him to Marquise Hill with less proven production. I don't see Brockers becoming much at all.

I don't like Brockers being "the guy" on the Rams dline.

I think he could've turned out as a good player being "the guy beside Wilfork" on our dline though.

 

[captain stone]

What aspect of Crable's game was NFL ready?

Apparantly no aspect, unfortunately for us.

 

[mayoclinic]

Bump from Mike Reiss:

1. I have been impressed with how articulate and poised Patriots first-round picks Chandler Jones and Dont’a Hightower have been over the last few weeks, and most recently on Friday. Bill Belichick will take his chances on certain prospects, but the first round is for the “sure thing”, and it’s easy to see why these two fall into that category from a complete package standpoint.

2. This is how hot for Jones I think the Patriots were – I believe they were in talks to move up higher than 21 to get him, but it didn't come together. Once the Seahawks took Bruce Irvin at 15 and the pass rushers started to come off the board, it was action time.

Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

In 13 drafts with the Patriots, BB has never traded more than a 3rd round pick to move up (for Dan Graham in 2002, Chad Jackson in 2006 and for Jones). If Reiss is right and BB was willing to potentially trade more than he ended up giving Cincinnati, it suggests that he really was "hot for Jones".

 

[ZoisKing]

Bump from Mike Reiss:



Quick-hit thoughts around NFL & Pats - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

In 13 drafts with the Patriots, BB has never traded more than a 3rd round pick to move up (for Dan Graham in 2002, Chad Jackson in 2006 and for Jones). If Reiss is right and BB was willing to potentially trade more than he ended up giving Cincinnati, it suggests that he really was "hot for Jones".

Amongst other things, Chandler's size/speed ratio is comparable to other young players in the league who've had great success recently (Aldon, JPP) as mentioned in previous posts. That serves as a good indicator of how his talent could translate, and makes it easy to see how BB would be willing to do what it takes in order to acquire him.

 

[captain stone]

Well then, let's hope that Bill's boner for Chandler proves satisfying for the rest of us, too.

 

[patchick]

I hope I'm wrong, but the list of players who have little production in college and then turn it on in the NFL is very short. Usually if you didn't produce in college, you won't produce in the NFL.

I agree with the principle, but I think it's more true for some positions than others. In recent years, college production hasn't been a great predictor of NFL success for pass-rushing DE/OLBs. Clay Matthews and Cameron Wake come to mind as two who did precious little in college, while Everette Brown and Larry English lead the LONG list of players who were hugely productive in college and have made little impact in the NFL.