Welcome to PatsFans.com

Heath Evans Claim: Players have never asked for more money

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Mar 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    24,076
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +211 / 16 / -36

    #50 Jersey

    Now, I wasn't a huge fan of Heath Evans when he was here. He was a mediocre blocking FB. But, his statement today on WEEI saying:

    It Is What It Is NFL Lockout, Day 5: Giants say season-ticket holders won’t pay until CBA is resolved

    Heath, no offense buddy, but you should have said, during these negotiations the NFLPA hadn't asked for more money. Cause, they have in the past.
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    37,940
    Likes Received:
    276
    Ratings:
    +549 / 4 / -12

    #87 Jersey

    heard that live today ... he pretty much showed their hand in his emotions. They do not plan to budge - that's how I see it.
  3. bucky

    bucky Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Listening to that interview live, the entire conversation was within the context of the current negotiation. So I don't think it sounds that bad. Obviously, if you look at it in the grand scheme of things, they typical negotiation is the reverse - players asking for more money.

    The one thing Evans said that I thought was odd is when he said that it's not just about money, but about retirement benefits, health insurance, etc. It seems to me that the owners are offering a lot more retirement benefits. It's the money that the players are digging in their feet about.
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    The NFLPA has had a goal of 55% of Gross Revenue since 1980 or thereabouts. They have struck more than once and sued a couple of times and decertified twice and even negotiated away portions of FA won via litigation not to mention passed on potential long term benefit gains for themselves as well as those who preceeded and will follow them in order to inch ever closer to that goal. The old adage that when someone says it's not about the money it's always about the money should be the official motto of the NFLPA and the majority of it's members.

    If Goodell actually told players - 78% of whom are in or on the brink of bankrupcy 2 years after their careers end - that their management team isn't smart enough to even grasp what the books they demand entail, that's refreshingly albeit brutally honest.

    Amazing how the cap that pays a group that has never asked for more money has risen from $34M back in 1993 to $128M in 2009. Must have been magic. Brady has always understood that when he left a million on the table it meant the difference between uncle Sam pocketing half of it and Uncle Bob via Uncle Bill spreading it across the roster to facilitate better depth. Because they reinvest their money and grow the business owners are portrayed as greedy. Because they spend their money and live in the moment despite repeated warnings they will end up broken shells, players are always portrayed victims.

    It's instructive to look at the recent benefits proposal the owners made that totaled $27M per team, up $5M from 2008-09 (and up $17M from 2010 which was part of the tradeoff the NFLPA was only too willing to make along with trading away 2 years of their young core members FA not to mention restrictive rules that effectively limited extensions for veteran players and an opt out in exchange for an uncapped season they swore would be a player panacea and the dawn of a new day). Teams were offering for the first time to guarantee a portion of rookie contracts ($1M) against injury in the process of capping first round rookie deals and redistributing ALL the cost savings back to veteran players and pre 1993 retirees and they were offering 5 year players the opportunity to remain in the NFL health plan post career with stipends to help mitagate the cost. They were also offering to reduce off season workouts and limit in season padded practices and take the 18 game schedule off the table even though the present CBA allows for 20 games without NFLPA approval.

    At the end of the day on the Friday the NFLPA decertified the owners were offering to redistribute or reinvest most of the give back they initially requested and settle for $325M in actual owner givebacks (based on the 2006 CBA split) or roughly $10M per team - less than half the cost of the average top tier veteran signing bonus and about a third of the windfall increase players had realized as a result of the 2006 CBA. And while the salary cap ceiling would have dropped in 2011, it would have increased by $20M over the next 4 years and the cap floor would have gone up immediately to 90%.

    Naturally the brilliant minds that rule the roost in the NFLPA smelled potential actual compromise afoot so rather than ask for an extension to counter it they decertified. Because their plan was always to take their case to court so they can find out how much the Bidwell boys get overpaid paid to run a team their family has owned for decades. I guarantee you it's not as much as Albert Haynesworth. Their goon president Mawae, the highest ranking non lawyer on their crack negotiating team, the one who deemed the 2006 CBA a great deal for the players even though it cost hundreds of them their shot at FA or big guaranteed money second deals, pronounced yesterday that it won't matter now what the NLRB rules on their decertification since they are no longer a union...

    These clowns needed more than a European investment banker and a cackle of lawyers in the room with them. They need some common sense and marginal intelligence and at least one guy who knows how to negotiate a CBA that works well enough for all sides to be sustainable long term.
  5. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +11 / 1 / -2

    Superb post Cousin. I can't add anything to that.
    DW Toys
  6. peterforpats

    peterforpats Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    what brilliant insight from a person who has no idea what actually has been negotiated or not, except from second hand reports and self-serving interviews. why don't you go to new york and have this settled by next week. thanks
  7. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    16,216
    Likes Received:
    209
    Ratings:
    +448 / 5 / -8

    #61 Jersey

    Well-informed conjecture often hits close to the mark in the hands of an astute observer. If you think you can do better, give it a try.
  8. peterforpats

    peterforpats Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    :(i don't think i can do better, that's why i'll wait and see what happens and not pretending i know everything. it is what is is, either they will settle and have a full season or they won't.
  9. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    What exactly did Mo put in his post that has been disputed "by the other side"?

    This problem is not going to get solved until the players can present a system where they can credibly analyze and evaluate the league on angoing forward basis.

    "Show us the books"? Huh, who is going to look? Antonio Cromartie? Tom Condon?

    There are aspects of what the owners put out that is inconsistent. However, until the players show a serious capacity to evaluate the business; they are blowing smoke.
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,511
    Likes Received:
    308
    Ratings:
    +818 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    NFLPA retains bank to help review NFL finances - NFL - SI.com
  11. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,296
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -1

  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,511
    Likes Received:
    308
    Ratings:
    +818 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    I'm not sure why you think the name of the bank matters, but it's already known, and it has been for more than a week:

    NFLPA hires International Investment Bank | National Football Post
  13. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    So the NFLPA has hired International Investment Bank to tell them what they want to hear.....I mean what what it means.

    The NFLPA would be fully credible if the SI article read that they hired an investment bank and with the preliminary data they have developed initial proformas to determine things like capital investments, admin costs, health care, profitability, revenue growth. Now they want to use the fully comprehensive statements to compare.

    What we have now is a Deus. An investment bank retained to mindlessly argue counter points.
  14. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,511
    Likes Received:
    308
    Ratings:
    +818 / 44 / -47

    Disable Jersey

    So, to recap....


    You:

    Me (citing to a quote which responds directly to your post and is in no way a counterpoint, but is a response demonstrating the players taking actions that are what you claimed the players needed to do):



    You:

    nonsensical insult


    :bricks:
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  15. bucky

    bucky Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Who knew that this labor stoppage was going to bring so much emotion and passion to this board! It's right up there with dozens of "Jets suck" threads.
  16. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    The labor vs capital, master vs slave, lord vs serf thing has been going on for centuries. Marx made a name for himself over it.

    This is emotional because you are combining a timeless human question with a potential loss of football.

    Also, the absence of competing visions and proposals and abundance of accusations make this even more charged.
  17. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +209 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    Supporting Heath Evans:

    The players' offer included $27 million in benefits and $124 million cap in 2011 for a total of $151 million. If the owners spent 90% of the $124 million cap, that would be $111.6 million. Add in the $27 million in benefits. That would be $138.6 million per club in cash outlays. The owners spent $141 million in cash outlays in 2009 (cap +benefits).

    If my numbers are right and I think that they are, the players offered the owners the opportunity to spend less cash in 2011 than they did in 2009.
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    It's only an opportunity when you are choosin to compare apples and oranges... Their expectation and what they asked them to be able to spend (100% of cap or ceiling and not floor) is more...
  19. Frezo

    Frezo Rookie

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    #50 Jersey

    The answer seems simple to me. Both parties sign a CBA that doesn't offend the players with a low cap number. The owners then agree amongst themselves to never spend above the cap floor. That would be substantial league wide savings. Of course the owners would have to trust each other. :pigsfly:: There's a knee slapper!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>