Welcome to PatsFans.com

Heat or Mavericks

Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by IcyPatriot, May 30, 2011.

?

Heat of Mavericks

  1. Heat

    14.3%
  2. Mavericks

    47.6%
  3. Heat because I cannot stand Mark Cuban

    4.8%
  4. Mavericks because I cannot stand LeBron

    47.6%
  5. MEH

    4.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,493
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +25 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Okay ... who do you want to win - not who you think will win ... okay.:cool:

    You can choose 2 if you want - I did ... Maverick's and I hate all things LeBron.
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  2. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Messages:
    12,963
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -0

    #51 Jersey

    Mavs because I like Dirk as a player.
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,493
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +25 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    2 players of recent NBA finals were big on the Celtics wish list. Gasol & Dirk were 2 players who the Celtics wanted badly ... I find this interesting. Watching Dirk play is inspirational and enjoyable for sure. Let's hope he can keep it going through the series.
  4. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I'm probably the only one who will vote for the Heat on this entire forum.
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,493
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +25 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey


    :rofl: .............
  6. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    i picked heat, but then reading the first post....it's tricky in terms of wants


    this is one of the few nba finals i can remember where i'm not really caring who wins it all, and i only say that because dirk winning it all would be a great feel good story.


    i'm a big lebron fan, but the mavs got screwed out of a title in 2006 in my opinion....
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    No offense, jcdavey, but I'm not sure how anybody could be a big fan of Lebron if he didn't play for your favorite team. He's hated by just about everyone around him, just ask the beat writers in Cleveland or Miami.

    This one's a no-brainer, I want the Mavs to win. I don't even like the Mavs, but David Stern will have finally killed all things good about basketball if Miami wins this series. It's degeneration into a one-on-one game that turns into a free-throw contest will be complete. A team with 3 superstars who all play best in isolation and deliver highlight reel worthy play. David Stern's dream come true.

    And that's not to take away anything from how Miami is playing right now. They are clearly the best team in basketball at the moment, and have improved their chemistry tremendously. But their offense is still based on one-on-one play and matchups. I just think any team that resembles the original Dream Team more than an NBA squad is bad for the game, longterm.
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    The ratings disagree with you.
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Unfortunately, good ratings != good basketball.

    But it does make David Stern happy.
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    And here comes the over-officiating to turn the game into a FT contest, mixed in with the expected brutally home-cooking calls Miami is getting. Why do I even bother watching this stuff.

    Edit: Wow, that call on Dirk was horrendous.
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  11. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Decent effort by the Mavs in yet another 5 on 8 game in favor of the Miami All-Stars. I thought the Mavs were by far the better team for the majority of the night and impressed by their interior presence. They have a legitimate shot of beating this Miami team because of it.

    They were also the more aggressive team all night, whether they were rewarded for that aggressiveness or not (I know they shot more FTs than Miami, but it really should've been a lot more). If they can figure out how to defend the 3, they'll make a series of it.

    The only interesting thing all night was seeing Javie place his hand on Lebron's hip for no good reason while he got ready to check in. Guess Javie just wanted to touch greatness. Gives a little insight into what starstruck losers these refs are.
    Last edited: May 31, 2011
  12. JPPT1974

    JPPT1974 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Not an NBA fan but will take the Mavericks. The Heat are co*ky, overconfident, and overrated!
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  13. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    You're basically complaining because the Heat are playing the way most people are expecting they would. D-Wade and LeBron were guarded by THREE GUYS tonight, at LEAST one of them being a seven footer, and they were still able to make shots. What does that tell you? That tells you that they're just that much more talented than the Mavs.
  14. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    15,910
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +56 / 0 / -0

    #61 Jersey

    The NBA sucks, and the Miami Heat is a major reason why. I watched the game tonight and it'll be the last one I watch this season.
  15. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I personally thought that the officiating was MUCH more tilted in favor of Dallas. The Heat couldn't even breathe on Nowitzki without being called for a foul. He was dead cold in the first quarter when the referees were at least calling the game as balanced as they could. In the second quarter he was off as well but was able to keep going to the line. I blame that for his outburst in the second half. He was having trouble with the Heat's defense but was still able to get to the line because he was able to back his man down without getting called for a foul, then got his man called for a foul as he did so and either stepped back for a fade away (which I don't have a problem with as it's impossible to stop a seven footer with an outside shot) or drove into the lane while either getting a ridiculously easy lay-up or getting called for a foul that was absolutely phantom the majority of the time. Dare I say that LeBron was called for a lot of these?

    No, what killed the Mavs is exactly what I expected to hurt them coming into the series... a lack of offense outside of Dirk. Dirk, in spite of you saying that he got robbed by the ref's, was only three points short of 30 for the game and was two rebounds away from a double-double. If he was getting screwed by the ref's, he wouldn't have had nearly as good of a game. The Heat's defense did what I expected them to do, which was slow Dirk down. Nobody's stopping him. He's elevated his game to a point in which he's going to contribute at least 20 points either by shooting or by posting up. No. What killed the Mavericks was the failure of everybody else around him to contribute. Who else contributed? Jason Terry? He was draining them in the first half until the Heat adjusted at halftime. In the second half, he had a constant hand in his face and was cold. Was that the act of the referees as well? Outside of him and Dirk, the only other player in double figures was Shawn Marion and his borderline retarded shot with 17 points. The Mavericks' bench only scored 17 points to the Heats' 27. Was that the referees as well?

    Look, coming into this series, I could hail what the Mavs had done. It's not easy. Dirk set a couple of records during the Western Conference playoffs while the Mavs swept the Lakers then eliminated the upstart Thunder in five. That's impressive. But still, they are just one man surrounded by good role players going up against three superstars and a decent to good bench depending on the night. The Heat are stronger, faster, and far more athletic. That's why they won tonight and that's why they'll win the series.
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    C0cky and overconfident I'll agree with. The Heat are c0cky as hell. But overrated? You don't reach the Finals by being overrated.
  17. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    The NBA needs a bad guy like the Heat just like they needed Jordan to take over as soon as Bird and Magic took a seat (keep in mind that he didn't win a title until those two stepped down and the NBA, as a whole, became mediocre). Use your critical thinking skills for a second, step back, and look at this from a point of view that isn't a rabid Celtics fan's. The Celtics were on the receiving end of all of this (only not as magnified, given they didn't celebrate a championship in July) in 2008. If you weren't a Celtics fan, you mostly either thought the NBA sucked because it wasn't fair or that the Lakers were getting screwed by the ref's. There was VERY little in between. But look at the ratings for that series. That was where the NBA began to come back. Flash forward three years later and listen to LeBron give credit to the Celtics franchise for the Heat's Big 3 coming together and you have the exact same thing. Like I said to BradyManny, the ratings disagree. You're hating the Heat because they're doing exactly what non-Heat fans were saying they wouldn't do in the offseason, and that's make and compete in the NBA Finals in spite of their flaws. You hate it now, but how will you feel when the Heat begin to get older, slower, and start losing to the upstart teams in the conference? That's the fun of sports.
  18. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    By the way, our "crowd" was absolutely embarrassing tonight. I'm glad I don't root for any Miami teams outside of the Heat.
  19. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    the heat bench outscored the mavs bench by 10...won the game by 8

    if the heat bench can keep that up, this series could be a sweep


    mavs bench just needs to respond, they missed way too many shots in game 1


    the mavs actually got to the FT line more than miami, so that's a plus for them if they can keep that up...but they're going to need their bench to show up....that was supposed to be the mavs advantage going into this series.
  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

  21. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

  22. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I'm not arguing with their talents, at all. Clearly the Heat have two of the probably the top 5 most talented players in the league, and a third in the top 30.

    But the style of basketball they play bores me. It's almost all predicated on one-on-one basketball. If I wanted to watch that I could go to the park down the street. I prefer watching teams move the ball and find the open man - like the current incarnation of the Celts when Rondo is playing well.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  23. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I think you've gotten too accustomed to the way the Heat play around the hoop on defense. The reason they defend better than anyone in the league is b/c they are more physical than anyone in the league. Are either Joel Anthony or Udonis Haslem suddenly all NBA defense? But suddenly both guys can close out in a hurry because they can get away with more contact due to the team they are on.

    I'll agree about Dirk - the guy gets the calls. No doubt, he gets the star preferential treatment that these pathetic refs can't help but making. He got bailed out on several occasions in the first half. But I also thought Marion, Barea, Chandler, etc. were the victims of an awful lot of contact that didn't get called.

    It's the old Pistons style of play - be physical every play, they can't call a foul every play. And Miami is playing a different brand of basketball then the rest of the league now b/c they are allowed to. They are far more physical. Watch how they close out on every defensive play - there's always contact. Contact, that on the other end, would sure result in a whistle.

    Frankly, I'd rather have the games ref'd that way, no doubt about it. Let these guys play defense. As long as Wade & Lebron don't go the line over a fraction of the contact on the other end.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  24. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    They also don't realize that a lot of the things they are railing against with LeBron are the same things that they defend when it comes to the Rapist.

    I'm not sure how they bore you. Vicious slam dunks, beautiful alley-oops, tenacious defense, and brutal packs bore you? If the Heat played the way you indicate they should, they would be out of the playoffs by now. They can move the ball with anybody in the league. The problem with the Heat doing that is that they don't have viable options on the offensive end at C and PG when the starters are on the floor. If you watch, the Heat are able to find the open guys a lot when LeBron and Wade are triple teamed. It's just that Mike Bibby and Mike Miller rarely, if ever, hit the big shots.

    Once again, you're basically complaining that the Heat are too talented and are playing in a way in which they KNOW can seal them a win.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  25. Keyser Söze

    Keyser Söze Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,289
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    F Lebron, F The Heat
  26. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    That's the spirit. :eat3:
  27. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I prefer Kobe and Wade's game to Lebron, by a huge margin. Wade was one of my favorite players in the league not wearing green until the last couple of years. I still like watching him play - when he's not flopping or taking on some of Lebron's irritating arrogance.

    I find Lebron's game to be frustrating and not very enjoyable. As you know, I feel it's predicated on a) his size b) his abuse of the rules of basketball.

    Outside of Wade, how entertaining a team are the Heat from a basketball standpoint? While it's a fair point that they are creating shots that some of their players are missing, I still wouldn't say they are a great TEAM offensively, but a great collection of talent. Lebron, Wade, Bosh still don't particularly complement each other.

    It's a testament that they are on the verge of winning a title in their first year together without a tremendous amount of teamwork or chemistry, offensively. Still most of their success comes down to individual plays by Wade or Lebron.

    This isn't the great Celtics & Lakers teams of the 80s whose pieces fit together like a puzzle, or even Jordan-Pippen, in which Scottie was the absolute perfect complement to MJ's game. This is an All-Star team that is overwhelming opponents on pure talent alone.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  28. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    I would disagree with the first paragraph and say that most of their success comes down to the lockdown defense they are able to play on their opponents. Sure, the individual plays have gotten it done in crunch time, but the Heat are only in these games because their defense swarms the opponent. Down the stretch last night, they were able to double team Dirk and still be able to get out to the three point line quickly enough to force bad shots. As for the individual match-ups winning games for them, that's the Heat's style. That's their game. We all knew this would be the case coming into the season, so why would anyone expect them to play a style that isn't theirs? Until they get better pieces to surround Wade, LeBron, and Bosh, that's what their style is going to be.

    I don't see any problem with the second paragraph.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  29. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Messages:
    25,463
    Likes Received:
    71
    Ratings:
    +98 / 2 / -2

    #24 Jersey

    Off topic for this thread, but Outside the Lines just reported that Shaq tweeted that he plans to retire. Not really a surprise and has been expected with the extent of his injuries. What a great career. Congratulations on your accomplishments, Shaq. Thank you for everything you did for the Heat as well as the NBA and good luck in your future endeavors.
  30. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Fair enough re: the defense. The one thing I will say about Miami is that a team predicated on stifling defense, a team that can rotate and close as good as any D I've seen since the 08 Celts, is a good thing.

    But that's as far as you'll get me to go. Outside of that, I don't think they are good for the game. The blueprint it sets up is not good for the league. The NBA was a league of haves and have-nots as it is, it's only going to get worse as teams try to emulate them.

    They can point to the Celtics big 3 as a Blueprint, but that team made sense from a team-building standpoint. A slasher-scorer 3, a pure-shooter at 2, and a 4 who can play inside or out. Add in a traditional PG and it was tough to beat. The Heat are simply just 3 guys who are tough to defend one-on-one.

Share This Page