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Heartland Leak - WattsUpWithThat?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Ya'll are acquainted with 13's favorite weathercaster/climate guru/blogger, Anthony Watts, right? The one that writes "the most read blogs on the internet and dwarfs every other blog on the issue of climate change."

    He's a supposedly independent blogger who, according to 13, doesn't actually do the science, (it's not his "job" but his "passion") but
    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...bald-solar-based-climate-forecast-2050-a.html

    According to Watt's own admission, however, Heartland, a libertarian thinktank working to discredit the established science on climate change, recently "helped him" find $90,000.00 for a new "project."

    So much for independent, unbiased reporting.

    Much like the often laughed at East Anglia's Climate Research, Heartland's got some leaky problems of it's own. Only there's isn't caused by internal e-mail - it's confidential documents detailing its strategy and fundraising networks that are making the internet rounds.


    Leak exposes how Heartland Institute works to undermine climate science | Environment | guardian.co.uk

    Apparently Heartland has been saddened by the fact that teachers and schools are resistant to non-scientific curriculum because the plan also notes the difficulty of injecting non-scientific topics in schools. "Heartland has tried to make material available to teachers, but has had only limited success in meeting those guidelines." Hence, the extra $100,000.00, I suppose.

    Heartland has so far said that at least one document was fake, and that it was the victim of theft and forgery but has made no attempt to deny the veracity of information contained in the leaked documents.
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The project had been announced previously a server to allow the unwashed masses to look and graph climate data from sat and other sources. the 90k ws covering the cost of the serves involved and the new website for the project.

    What this 'exposes' is the pittance spent that had refuted the MMGW scan as opposed to the billions spent promoting the junk science of the warmers.

    BTW most of the stories an without the 'journalist' attempting to contact Watts or Heartland to get their side of the story. Which now includes a mix of 'documents obtained under false pretenses and forged documents.

    Watts of course covers this extensively.

    The Anatomy of a Global Warming Smear | Watts Up With That?

    and the unraveling of the 'story':

    The DeSmoggers are crashing and burning | Watts Up With That?

    Heartland Memo Looking Faker By the Minute - Megan McArdle - National - The Atlantic

  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Of course he does.
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Went the Leftie Atlantic Monthly is bailing on the Warmist it si game over, time to find another scandal. Since yo wouldn't understand the science part anyway.
  5. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I can't even understand what yo [sic] trying to write half the time.
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey



    :popcorn: :idontgetit: :idontgetit: :idontgetit: :popcorn:
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think you're owning up to the fact that the liberal groups can engage in the exact same strategy as conservative groups. There is no serious rational basis for saying that one scandal is valid and the other is not.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Getting a server to plot temperature data for the public?
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Taking bribes?
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What bribe?

    A grant for a server and website is a bribe? in what universe do you live. What public $$$$ is involved.

    The forged documents are the only scandal here.
  11. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Rather then trying to undermine the credibility of MMGW heretics, why not address their objections? If you have a good explanation for why things like this are a good idea, I'd love to hear it:

    Marysville issues1
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you serious? We can play the political game as much as you. If you want to interpret your "evidence" in the most cynical way and use one interpretation as a means of discrediting the work of thousands of scientists around the world, we can do the same. That's my point. The fact is that the deniers have lost the scientific argument in the scientific sphere, so they are turning to various dishonest means to try to stay relevant in the political sphere. My honest assumption is that the vast majority of scientists are simply interested in science not politics. The fact that have come down by and large believing in MMGW (for a host of evidence-based reasons) is forcing the special interests that would be affected by efforts to curb MMGW to use whatever is at their disposal to fend off efforts to make our air and water cleaner.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  14. patsfan13

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    You are increasingly unfamiliar with the underlying science.

    Nothing I can do about that, many scientist have changed their mind as a result of the empirical observations diverging from the predictions of the models. Moreover the temps worldwide haven't increased in 15+years in spite of rising carbon levels.

    Even leading Green activist have recognized the 'settled science' is junk and have become skeptics:


    'Germany's George Monbiot' turns climate sceptic – Telegraph Blogs


    Of course the green activist are being attacked for their act of heresy, after religious true believers can't deal with heresy, so they will be figurativly be burned at the stake by their ex comrades.

    German skeptics Lüning and Vahrenholt respond to criticism | Watts Up With That?

    Now the solar scientist and geophysicist are weighing in on the stop in global warming and the likely hood of a cooling pattern over the next 30 years.

    http://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.1954v1.pdf


    A commentary on this paper:

    Do Latest Solar Studies Confirm Upcoming Global Cooling? | Watts Up With That?


    Then the geophysicist are weighing on data showing that clould levels are lowering which results in a negative feedback that is lowering temps, as opposed to the positive feedback posited by Hansen the the Modelers:

    World Climate Report »


    Link to the paper:

    Global cloud height fluctuations measured by MISR on Terra from 2000 to 2010


    I have avoid [resenting the evidence here, since I have found it is foolish to try to talk rationally with believers about their religious beliefs.

    They respond with meaningless (and incorrect) assertions like "99% of all scientist believe what I believe" which has no basis in fact.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    pf, as a layman, I'm very familiar with the underlying science. You seem to read the science of climate deniers and then consistently claim it as fact, apparently unaware of the nature of the responses of MMGW believers. It surprises me how unaware you are of your own political biases on this subject. If you can't separate your political biases from the facts, I do not think you can get at the truth.

    As I've said to you in the past, I form my views based on the views of those I trust. It's not Al Gore or the DNC that has led me to believe in MMGW, it's Scientific American, Discover Magazine, and National Geographic, three magazines that never had a political bias in my opinion that I trusted even before MMGW was an issue. They have synthesized the facts several times in ways that made sense to me. That said, I have always argued that the point about global warming is not the most compelling one to me. In my view, there is no reason we should not be investing in clean energy, clean air, and clean water. Why right wingers want to constantly piss on God's green earth is beyond me!

    Now, as you your other points, I suggest you get in the habit of reading your own links. The headline about George Monbiot is dreadfully deceptive, which certainly not only reflects on your research abilities but on the quality of your sources. There is no evidence he's a climate skeptic. Instead the article is about a green politician who turned into a skeptic.

    There are of course some believers who are now skeptics (though the degree of skepticism varies, and the lists I see online identify a half dozen scientists over a 5 year period, so it's not a big number) and some deniers who have changed course too, usually then facing harsh attacks from the embarrassed skeptics, who are few in number to begin with.

    D.R. Tucker's "Confessions": How do climate skeptics change their minds? - Slate Magazine

    Global Warming Skeptic Converts to Global Warming Believer on EthicsDaily.com
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  16. DarrylS

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  17. patsfan13

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    Well if someone presents forged documents as being real to smear your reputation then that isn't frivolous.

    Sorta a D Rather forging documents situation.
  18. DarrylS

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    Do the same standards apply to Breitbart and his boy toy O'Keefe????
  19. DarrylS

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    Now the response of something that did not happen...

    Little Green Footballs - Peter Gleick: The Origin of the Heartland Documents

  20. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    perhaps the mods should ban each other from this thread...

    It IS interesting watching pf13 try to get all intricate in his climate change denial, leaning on "science" and "data" ... all while completely balking on anything better than surface dismissal of the related topic of global oil depletion.

    That's because he has no data that he can spin, that particular debate is over, and he didn't win a single round.

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