Heard that Asante WILL be franchised....

[BelichickFan]

I would love to see if a team like Washington or Minnesota would throw cash at Asante and throw us a first rounder. We know how much Washington disregards firsts so maaaaaaybe they throw us one?

If John Abraham can get a #1 as a Franchised UDA, Samuel should be able to. I would take a 2008 #1. Let them buy on the credit card and us have two #1s two years in a row - and another team to root against next year

 

[Pat_Nasty]

The question is, who out there would be willing to pay him much above what he'd get being franchised? I can't see how anyone would really believe he's worth "elite" money.

Well, he's not going to get anything above the franchise amount on a per year basis, because nobody does. He'll accept less per year for a long-term deal with significant guarantees.

As for nobody believing he's worth "elite" money -- they will. He wouldn't be the first guy to get treated like a proven commodity after one good season. The NFL is filled with GMs who seem to have little memory of anything past this past year.

Factor in the dearth of talent in the league at CB right now, which actually does raise the real value of a player like Samuel, as well as the abundance of cap money, and you've got a formula for an elite money free agent, even if he isn't the 2nd coming of Ty Law.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm sure Man-Love-Gina has already told him what they would pay ... ManGirl has some $$$ to spend.

Before that pig jets away with new wings, let's take a little closer look.

Using the link Miguel posted, NY Jets ($28.455 M) are just ahead of the New England Patriots ($26.98 M) by 1.5 M, give or take a dollar. The question then becomes, which team has more rebuilding to do? If Asante left the Pats' roster today, and everyone else stayed the same, you still have enough depth at CB with Chad Scott, Ray Mickens, and Randall Gay to field a competitive secondary. I'm assuming the Jets will want to make some further changes to the depth chart to become even more competitive in the AFC East. Let's not forget, Mangini is still a Belichick clone, he may covet an Asante Samuel, but he is comfortable taking a Hobbs or Samuel in the draft and developing them. He platooned three CBs at LCB to remain competitive. I don't see the Jets as the Pats' Free Agency bogeyman - if they grabbed Briggs, I'd see it more readily.

 

[PatsSox363804]

I actually wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the Saints came into trade talks again, they desperately need to replace the gaping hole that is Fred Thomas. The guys over at SaintsReport.com have been talking about Asante like he is Champ Bailey.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

Considering the hole Samuel would leave if he was traded to another team, I'd guess that the Pats franchise him with intention of him playing for the Pats for at least the next two years (you can only use the tag twice on one player) while the team brings along a draftee from this spring. The idea of Hobbs on one side and a raw rookie on the other can't be very appealing to BB. The middle of the road types the Pats often use to plug such holes will be getting grossly overpaid next season with all the excess cap space washing around the league, so finding a stopgap will be doubly hard, making the ploy of keeping Samuel even more sensible.

Once Asante is presented with fact he's going to be here regardless of what he'd like to do, the idea of a say, a 3yr/$20mil contract with $12mil guaranteed ($10mil in year one) will look pretty tempting. He'd still be pretty young when the contract expires and he wouldn't have to worry so much about injury, on top of all that he'd be on full display weekly with one of the most visible teams in the NFL.

Yes, franchised players are guaranteed to be paid their salary but that is only for the present season; poor play or debilitating injury could wipe out future earnings.

Bottom line: one way or another, Asante's in a Patriots uniform next season.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

if Deion was worth a 1st in preseason Asante is definitely worth a 1st + another pick in the offseason. Let's compare the two:

No one could have argued Deion was a top 5 WR. Few would have argued him a top 10. Asante's year has convinced a lot of people that he's a top 5 CB.

The Deion trade was made in preseason, when many teams had already filled their holes, set their rosters, and spent their cap money. An Asante trade could take please before the draft and before the teams have to decide if they need to acquire a CB in free agency. Also, an offseason trade is bigger news (some teams like making a splash in the offseason) and it allows the team to market Asante before the season.

CB is overvalued even more than WR. Teams (and fans) regularly look at CBs and think "that guy is killing us" because CBs are always the ones seen being beaten on big plays (even if the DL is the problem because they aren't getting any pressure on the QB everyone sees the passes being completed against the CBs). Asante can be viewed as a fix to a team's problem moreso than Deion could ever be viewed that way.

Deion didn't have any eye-popping numbers. Asante's interceptions total jumps off the page and tells teams "I am great."

Deion had the superbowl MVP. He had that going for him. The most recent memories of Asante involve a couple playoff INTs returned for touchdowns though.

Unless a 1st for Deion was just a major overpay I don't see any way Asante doesn't get a 1+ when you look at it this way. Maybe a 1st from a team that can be expected to draft somewhere between 10-20, though that's very risky for both sides. If a team refuses to give up a 1 then get them to give up multiple picks over a couple drafts which add up to more than a 1.

Asante should have a lot of value in trade.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Denver may need to redo a lot of contracts, but they tragically have a roster opening at CB and are doing a major defensive reshuffle bringing in that accursed Bates to oversee the rookie DC.

 

[Hok]

We'd be crazy not to franchise him. Even if he's too rich for our blood, after the season he had, a lot of teams will want him and will give up something for him.

 

[SCPatBoy]

Someone here please post 6 CB's who are decidely better then Samuel.......

 

[BelichickFan]

If you franchise him isn't the compensation 2 first rounders?

That's if the team just signs him to a contract while tagged. If they teams work together on an alternate compensation package, it can be for whatever they agree to. I forget the exact sequence of events regarding when the contract is actually signed and when the trade officially happens.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Again, the Franchise Tag is a better deal right now than it will be in the future, or it has been in the past. As time goes on, and "top 5 deals" reflect our recent flood of cap money in the form of higher "top 5" figures, the Franchise Tag will be very difficult to use indeed.

Even assuming all the deals producing "Top 5" numbers for 2006 were made in 2005 and not before, we're basing our numbers on a league with a cap at $85.5M. Once FA cornerbacks cut their deals, they will be cutting them to reflect the CB share of $109M, or a 28% increase. So, if 2 years from now all the deals reflected in the Top 5 reflect that increase, we can predict that the 7.8M number to become about $10M.

These are gross numbers, but the idea is that the "trailing effect" of the Top 5 number is about to drag right through those big cap increases, especially 2006, but also 2007, and on into 2008. We're at the end of "cheap franchising."

So, if you ever want to use the tag, now is the time to do it. The Pats happen to have a situation where using the tag is a viable option in the first place, and this dynamic makes it a more attractive option.

The only thing that will countermand this logic, is if a) no "good" corners are redoing deals in the next few years, b) everybody in the "top 5" cut their deals in 2006, or c) Cornerbacks begin to be paid less relative to other positions.

CB is the highest-paid defensive position, league-wide. I don't think we can afford a high-paid corner, but we can afford to franchise one (especially if we trade him, so someone else is picking up at least part or all of the tab.)

just my same .02 worth, over and over again,

PFnV

 

[pkb]

The one thing to consider tactically is the Pats will want to complete a deal with Graham before they have to officially announce the tag for Samuel. Because, until the tag is done officially, they can hold over both players the possibility of the tag versus the option of signing for more guaranteed money over more years.

I assume they do not have the same agent, right? THat would be the complication in that approach, of course.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

We really can't control where he goes. He would have to agree to a contract witht he team before the trade or they would never give a pick for an unsigned player.

Also, we can only trade him if he does not sign the tender, if I recall the Tebucky trade correctly. If he signs the tender, i don't think we can trade him.

Either way, we cannot control where he goes, unless he agrees.

someone said....how can you trade a guy if you don't own his rights?

 

[Miguel]

someone said....how can you trade a guy if you don't own his rights?

That would be me. IMO, you can't.

 

[BelichickFan]

someone said....how can you trade a guy if you don't own his rights?

You Franchise him, you trade him. It happens a few times each year. Why do people keep bringing it up ?

Who cares about the mechanics of if the offer is signed, when the trade happens, etc - Pioli can do that. Go look up John Abraham, Tebucky Jones, Peerless Price. It's no big deal, just technicalities of timing.

 

[patchick]

The question is, who out there would be willing to pay him much above what he'd get being franchised? I can't see how anyone would really believe he's worth "elite" money.

There's no equating a one-year franchise contract with a long-term deal complete with massive signing bonus. Far more security for the player. And do you think Asante wants to have to play this well next season, too?

 

[upstater1]

Folks, here's the problem.

Too mucha vailable money, and not enough players pout there to give it to.

You have a dilemma. You can't overpay these guys too much because then you throw your pay structure out of whack. You'll have much more important players getting less by comparison just because they signed a contract when the cap was tighter.

I really think the NFL did a disservice by allowing the salary cap mechanism to be tied to a higher percentage of revenues. Ralph Wilson is right. And the only reason the other owners went along with it is because of the luxury boxes and all the dough that's coming in. Which means they were underpaying the players all along.

What you have to do is tie the cap to a lower percentage while including total revenues. This will allow a gradual build-up in the cap, and prevent the sort of ludicrous imbalance that's going on now.

The teams that actually spend to the cap next year will be overpaying players wildly. I'm OK with the Pats not spending to the cap in the next few years so that teams can catch up with the increases.

 

[spacecrime]

it's worth Franchising him just to control where he goes - read : NFC or crappy AFC team

We really can't control where he goes.

Sure we can control it.

No we can't. We can keep him here if we want. That is all we control. If he goes, we cannot control where he goes.

There is no way we can send him to the NFC or a crappy AFC team as you claim if he wants to go to the Jets and play for Mangini.

The most we could do is give him $8 mil to make him wait a year and then let him go to the Jets.

 

[BelichickFan]

No we can't. We can keep him here if we want. That is all we control. If he goes, we cannot control where he goes.

There is no way we can send him to the NFC or a crappy AFC team as you claim if he wants to go to the Jets and play for Mangini.

The most we could do is give him $8 mil to make him wait a year and then let him go to the Jets.

We can control where he goes. Because he can't go anywhere unless we agree. He has to stay for a year unless we let him go. If we wanted we could Franchise him again, admittedly for over $9M the second time. But we could do it.

These arguments are useless. All players want a long term contract. If he can't get the one he wants here he'll try to get one elsewhere - as long as it's to a place we're willing to send him he can get it.

Can he wait us out for a year - or at most two ? Yes. But he very likely wouldn't. Regardless, I'm talking about 2007 - right now that's what I care about. If you want to make the argument that he'd be too expensive to re-Franchise and could go to NY in a year as a UFA, fine. But for 2007 he's not going to a team we don't want him to unless they pay a high price in draft choices.

 

[smg93]

I am actually re-thinking my position on tagging samuel. If both Asante and Graham aren't going to sign extensions, I would rather tag Graham because it'll only cost a bit more than 4 million. The reason for this, and yes i know it's a bit risky is that I don't think there really is anyone out there who is willing to pay him the 7+ million Asante will be due after being franchised.

While we also know that people like Dan Snyder are out there, I don't think anyone think's Samuel is one of the top 10 corners in this league. I'd take my chances by negotiating with him without the tag, which is his and his agent's preference anyway and try to match the highest offer out there.

The danger here is that the highest offer may be too much for us and he would walk out of here with us getting nothing in return. But the 7+ million he would make if tagged, is in my opinion, too much for us to pay anyway with the way our salary cap is spread out a lot more than most teams.