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Health Care Reform Bill passes House vote 220-215

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by efin98, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    US House of Representatives passed their version of health care reform 220-215 in a tight vote. Next month the US Senate is expected to vote on their version of the bill.

    Passage is three steps from passage of a comprehensive system overhaul. If/When the Senate passes their version they must have a conference with the house to hammer out the details between the two bills and then it goes for another vote in each house.

    Final passage if it comes will be this upcoming Spring, just in time for election season to start...which could cost some votes on either side of the issue if it drags on for too long. It it also expected to cost members of the House and Senate their jobs as well as 2010 is an election year and there is expected to be numerous close elections with losses expected for the majority Democatic Party.
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sec. 59b - p 297-299 - says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.



    Citizens are now second class bye bye freedom. We are all serfs to the government.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IMO this bill will cost the dems control of both houses of the legislature and Obama the presidency, the bill will be repealed when people realize what is in it.
     
  5. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    They already know a bunch of the Democrats are going to be booted in next November's election, however it isn't expected to cost them the majority yet...

    There are rumblings that it could end up before the US Supreme Court at some point...doesn't need repealing if the nine say "NO" to its legality.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  6. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Seeing as how we've had income taxes for 80 years now which are unconstitutional, as well as the fact that we have now engaged in multiple wars without Congressional approval... what is your point about the Supreme Court?
     
  7. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Read up on a little thing called the 16th Amendment of the US Consitution.

    It did the only thing that could overrule the high court's final word- it made what was unconstitutional constitutional by making it part of the US Constitution.

    They have been legal since ratification in 1913, whether you choose to believe they are legal or not they ARE LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  8. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Oh cool. So they're going to ram this thing down our throats whether we like it or not. Sounds like American politics to me!
     
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    These are the Filthy Rats the people want running their country now the people that elected them will just have to sit back and live with them.

    Don't be surprised if some day this New Communist Government doesn't force you to open your home to an Illegal Alien (and support him)

    Within the next ten years massive violence will erupt all across America (you can bet on it)
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great news. An important step towards providing the same rights that other advanced nations provide to their citizens.
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You may wish to peruse the bill, there is no mentioni of illegal immigrants, nor is their any information regarding excluding them from paying taxes....

    H.R. 3962 - Affordable Health Care for America Act as Introduced

    Serfs to the government is interesting, every day your family is getting gang raped by Wall St, the banking and insurance company, big pharma, military industrial contractors and the food industry... open your eyes it is amazing what you will find out..
     
  12. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    Jerry Pournelle:
    Ignorant Americans who don't understand economics are embracing security over freedom.

    The Sons of Liberty were what Paul Revere was a member of. Now Daughters and Sons of Equality--fundamentally opposed to liberty--are running things in DC. We'll have another revolution starting with the elections of 2010. President Obama is too busy watching movies about his election or Chicago Bulls games to be doing his job properly. Washington Examiner
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Seem to recollect one of our founding fathers who said somethig about this a while ago... also remember silence during the last administration when many of our freedoms were compromised under the guise and lies of national security..

    -Ben Franklin
     
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Aren't you the one who keeps telling me "words mean something?"

    Once again you have proved yourself a master at supplying false information and peddling cheap hysteria. Either that or you're just plain ignornant of the English language.

    Read your bill again - it states, "non-resident aliens" are exempt from this requirement.

    With good reason, Agent 13 - "non-resident aliens" are visitors here - legal ones. They are short term students here on visiting student visa's, people visiting family, people on vacation - you know "non-resident" meaning "not living here." Would you want to take a vacation to Spain and be fined for not enrolling in their insurance plan? Chances are, since so very many foreign countries already have a national health care system, any "non-resident alien" is already covered under their own c ountry's national plan anyhow - and most of them have provisions for illnesses which take place in another country - unlike the private policies written in The United States which don't generally cover you if you've traveled outside of The United States.

    There is no mention of "illegal alien" in the pages you've mentioned with good reason - because they've been excluded from coverage elsewhere in the bill. Since they cannot legally purchase into any sort of health care plan it becomes a moot point to fine them for not possessing something they've been forbidden to have.

    To prevent you from making needless and time-wasting mistakes in the future here's the definitions of sub-set aliens for future reference.


    An alien who has temporary or permanent residence in a country (which is foreign to him/her) may be called a resident alien of that country. This is a subset of the aforementioned legal alien category.

    An alien who is visiting a country (which is foreign to him/her) may be called a nonresident alien of that country. This is a subset of the aforementioned legal alien category.

    An alien who is present in a country (which is foreign to him/her) unlawfully or without the country's authorization may be called an illegal alien of that country.[2] In the United States, such an alien may euphemistically call themself an "undocumented person".


    Alien (law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You also fudged (gosh, who would have thought it?) on the cost of the fine for non-compliance, as well. It could be in the thousands of dollars, yes, but it's based on income and it will never exceed the cost of the cheapest available policy for a single person.

    Sometimes you have to read the whole thing, Agent 13, not just the parts someone's right wing blog told you about.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2009
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unfortunately those who rely on blogs for information often feed the hysteria, yesterday it was the Shooter in Ft. Hood was advising Obama on National Security.. only to find out he attended a conference at George Washington U... but Worldnet and Newsmax make a very good living off of these half truths.... and unfortunately those who do not do the hard work, and just believe the crap that they are dealt are just another lemming...
     
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    But don't they ever get embarrassed when they're proven wrong? Especially when they're proven wrong again and again?

    What part of the fact that eventually people quit believing anything habitual liars spout don't they understand?

    The Net is a wonderful thing - you can so easily verify almost anything - why not take a few seconds to make sure you've got the truth? Not for the benefit of those you're speaking to, but for yourself? Or isn't the truth important anymore?

    Personally, I'm as embarrassed as hell when I quote something wrong or offer an opinion stated as fact which is, in fact, not factual. I'll quickly apologize and I'll correct the information.

    In the end, we are judged by our words, especially in a medium such as this, and if our words are consistantly false then we are judged as liars at the worse and idiots at the best.

    When we fail to do even the most rudimentary of research we don't end up fooling the other person we only end up fooling ourselves. What's the point?
     
  17. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    You're right that illegal immigrants are excluded from the plan BUT if there is no effective way to verify who is here illegally, they could get coverage by lying. Taking a wink and nod approach and a blind eye is not the right approach.

    Immigration in Health Care http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Immigration_in_Health_Care.pdf
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Ineffective Verification Methods. According to Section 347 of the underlying bill, illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive affordability credits illegal (government subsidies to purchase “qualified health benefit plans”). However, the verification method to determine whether an individual is here legally is unreliable and ineffective. While the bill requires that applicants give a Social Security number, it contains no requirement that an individual show a valid ID in order to match the individual with the Social Security number provided – thus creating a vast opportunity for fraud and abuse. Moreover, the verification provisions allow an individual who self-certifies eligibility presumptively to enroll in federal programs—and remain enrolled for up to 120 days after a records discrepancy is finally discovered.
     
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That may or may not be true - and I'll certainly try to wade through the bill sections which apply to verification, but that's not what #13 was saying, was it?

    He was saying that non-resident aliens were exempt from paying a fine for not having coverage.

    That actually has nothing to do with the illegal aliens you've mentioned at all.

    It's apples and oranges - just because two adjoining words carry the same secondary word does not mean that the phrase they make up means or even implies the same thing.

    It would be like saying there was absolutely no different between a fat girl and a skinny girl simply because descriptive adjectives are immaterial and have no meaning on their own or no ability to change the meaning of the noun which follows.

    The fact is, there are all kinds of girls, just as there are all kinds of aliens.
    One shouldn't get them mixed up or try to offer evidence of one as evidence of the other.
     
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Freedom:
    The one thing the left wing liberal democrat has constantly bellowed and blubbered about now it is they themselves who are destroying it.

    This is all a good thing though come voting time THEY WILL PAY as will even our Beautiful Messiah.
     
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did you read section 347, or just rely on the hyperbole of the blogs.. suggest you do so,there is not a lot of wiggle room as you describe...

    Here is what is said in Section 347...

     

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