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Have these people lost their minds?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by scout, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

  2. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    "However, the GOP energy package may face tough sledding because it also includes a controversial proposal to open part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil exploration, which most Democrats and some "idiot" Republicans oppose."

    It is about time to get this on track.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    INcrease the debt, pass the payback to our grandchildren and great grandchildren. This is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard of, feel good spend some money...

    If they want to spend money hold a contest for some organization to show how you can make syngas or some alternative fuel inexpensively or develop a viable alternative for the internal combustion engine.
  4. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    It won't cost taxpayers anything... you guys have it all wrong, the government gets to print money!
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Is that your only solution? Even if this happens, it's only a drop in the bucket. What else do we do?
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read on Raw Story that the Dems are going to propose a 60 day repeal of the federal gas tax (~18 cents) to be paid for by gutting tax loopholes for oil companies. I thought that was a good idea, both economically and politically, but so far they haven't proposed it.
  7. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I'm not reading some political editorial to figure out what you mean. If you've got something to say about oil drilling in Alaska, just say it (whether you think it's the magic bullet, or needs to be combined with other measures - and what those measures are).
  9. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That is dumb.

    But then again, I just got done eating lunch and the TV was on CSPAN. I watched 20 minutes of congressmen debate a bill that will change the rules on how they debate. Amazing!
  10. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Ok, how do you know how much oil is there? Is it disbuted, yeah, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Thats what I am saying.
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    It's not just the amount of oil, it's looking at how opening it will impact the big picture.

    First of all, how quickly can it be drilled, and what's would be the impact to the environment.

    How would the government distribute drilling rights? Would they go for far too little money to ExxonMobil & other companies already making record profits? Would there be any restrictions on how the companies sell the oil they drill? Or could they just drill lots of oil, but withold it from the market in order to keep the price high?

    Would OPEC cut their supplies by the same amount of oil we'd get out of Alaska in order to keep worldwide supply level and keep the prices rising?

    This issue is being waaay oversimplified, in my opinion, to the point of "Seals & Polar Bears vs. Patriotic Americans Who Use Oil" and there's a lot more to it - the Patriotic Americans might not get what they bargained for even if this thing does happen, only the Superpatriotic Energy CEO's may really benefit from this.
  12. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    That is the best and fairest proposal so far. Where are the tax-cuting fiscally conservative Rs on this?

    <crickets>
  13. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do believe the oil companies need to be scrutinized (and I don't think Bush will do that, he'll just say it real loud. He's from that world.) They're unlikely to forego an opportunity to make the odd quarter per gallon when the actual geopolitical and market forces set the price, say, 75 cents a gallon higher. Voila, it becomes a buck. Or more...

    That said, "what to do about painful gas prices" only becomes important if broken down socioeconomically:

    1. The "driving poor" get seriously screwed by gas price hikes.
    2. The "transit poor" see fuel oil differences but less of gas price hikes. Of course, there is an overlap there. But heavy drivers tend to be people that drive to work.
    3. The middle class gets screwed badly, but can better afford it. This is because the cost to the middle class of the 50 dollar difference a month (we'll call it) is proportionately less than to the "driving poor." Also, the middle class can afford to live in the more expensive areas located close to good transit (at least here in the DC area.) A lot of "driving poor" are also "geographically undesireable." (poorer transit service.) So the middle class can more easily switch over if they are not using transit already.
    4. The upper middle and upper classes proportionately feel the pain that much less.

    First major point: 100 bucks a taxpayer is in the neighborhood of 10 billion dollars plus. As if we aren't *****d enough by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, not to mention the "We're sorry we screwed up on Katrina, here's some money" response last summer. Talk about tax and spend. Oh yeah I forgot... it's cut the tax of the rich, and spend.

    No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no.

    Second major point... as you can see from category (3) above, eventually - here comes the cold water - we want this to happen. We just don't want to give the money to Exxon.

    Where's the huge SUV market now? Come on guys, think. It's inevitable that we go through this eventually. The problem relates more to the "driving poor" than anybody else, because they get more screwed than anybody in this situation.

    Our problem is we approach this as a "how to keep the unsustainable model comfortable and cheap" issue. Yeah I would love that too. But the change is coming, and the soon we move toward it, the better.

    No, I don't drive a hybrid and get so smug I love the smell of my own farts. But we've known we're in an unsustainable oil economy for decades... and finally an economic incentive has begun to change things like purchase and driving habits.

    Appoint an independent commission, if you're serious about gouging. Create those credits, but means test them. Give that money to people who get hit hardest, and do so judiciously. Take away the last wave of gifts to the rich, and expand decent transit options.

    Whether or not we roll back to under 3 bucks a gallon after this summer, the change is necessary. In fact... 3 bucks a gallon might be good for encouraging various alternative fuels.

    Back to football,

    PFnV
  14. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I really hope we see $5-6 dollars a gallon, then we might get some serious competition on alternative fuels. Look at Brazil, years ago they decided to bight the bullet and fund resources for alternative fuels. They are looking pretty smart right now. Bush speaks and he's blowing smoke up our arse. Of course, is there anyone that really believes anything he is saying? We need a real leader who will take the necessary measures to break us from fossil fuel dependency. If we can go to war against a country for no apparent reason, then we can fight the oil industry. Who doesn't think the people wouldn't get behind that scenario. Yea, lets drill for more oil in Alaska and off the coast of Florida, because that will solve our problems.
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    When the chimp made his speech (there's an oxymoron foya) the other day about Hydrogen cells, I Googled the term and came up with a number of stories about it, mostly from Iceland, where the government declared an initiative to move away from fossil fuels entirely and base their entire energy policy on H-cells. I thought, "great idea", and I looked at the date of the article - 2001 ! That chimp of ours is on the cutting edge.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2006
  16. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    Just goes to show you how bigoted the Democrat party is. The head of the PatsFans DNC is the biggest offender of them all. F'ing scumbag!
  17. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    BooHoo! Take a bus to get your free government viagra.

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