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Hate Crimes

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There seems to be a misunderstanding by some about hate crimes legislation. I did post this in another thread, but I see the same misunderstanding is still being expressed. The Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act, expands on the 1969 hate crimes law to include sexual orientation and disability. It protects

    (Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress))

    "actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability."

    Now I think it's hard to deny that there are more hate crimes directed against minorities than the majority. After all, it's a lot more difficult to come up with expressions, cartoons, or other images that disparage white people, straight people, or Christians than minority groups. Nonetheless, hate crime laws have been applied to bring justice to members of the majority, though it is more often used in cases involving minorities.

    Table 4 - Hate Crime Statistics 2009
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well Shepard was murdered, the charge should be First degree murder and either the death penalty or life imprisonment without parole.

    The reason for the crime is secondary to the crime.

    Why is the murder of M Shepard any more or less deserving of justice than any other heinous murder victim...???????????

    Some animals are more equal than others?
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, the law treats everyone equally. If a gay person harms a straight person because of the latter's sexual orientation, the law can be (and has been) applied. So, all "animals" are equal.

    Sometimes because of prejudice at the local level, the law doesn't work effectively. Such things as "gay panic" defense are an example of the way some attempt to circumvent justice. In addition, there's a substantial history of all-white juries meting out injustice in race based cases. Also, as Chief Justice Rehnquist said, "this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm.... bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest."
     
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Why?

    I think that is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The intent is to protect minority groups, which is where it has chiefly been applied.
     
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm with 13 on this. I disagree and am very uncomfortable with the hate crime concept for Constitutional reasons. It bends the concept of equal protection too much. I know why it's done, but I think it's a band-aid applied to a broken justice system and only certain people get the benefit of that band-aid. Not fair.

    Penalties need to be more uniform except for some very specific circumstances like self-defense and protection of your kids. I could also see a class of murder for revenge in certain very specific cases. A policeman is just as valuable as a gay kid in Wyoming. We also need to end the failed war on drugs.
     
  6. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    You are missing the point. If I, as a straight man, kill another straight man just for fun, why is that less of a crime? The unequal treatment is not straight on gay vs. gay on straight crime, it is straight on gay and white on black vs. the same crimes without any "perceived" motivation due to bias. Murder is murder.
     
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    How about making black on black crimes a hate crime? Because the liberals want you to believe that only white people would ever dare hurt a black man. But fact is the #1 killer of young black men is other young black men.

    I guess liberals don't want to solve that problem. They're perfectly happy to see those people they consider savages kill themselves.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Penalties aren't uniform. Our system does not provide for that. Fundamentally, it's a states rights issues, and in some states because of local values a gay, black, Muslim, or other person is regarded as having lower value by juries and judges. Of course, not always, but sometimes. In addition, the fact is that when a particular group is targeted it creates social unrest. Even if it's a band-aid, it helps with the healing.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As my link shows, hate crimes laws have been applied to black on white crime, and I suppose the law could be applied to black on black crimes if a self-loathing black person harmed another black person because of his race.

    As far as crime in black communities, liberals believe the solution lies primarily in education and social services; conservatives believe the solution lies primarily in police and prisons.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not less of a crime, but it ignores the unfortunate reality that some people are regarded as less than others. Believe it or not, there are disadvantages to being a minority.
     
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    This is the value I see in a federal hate crimes law. It's basically another tool against the worst crime and would prevent a biased prosecutor or juror from obstructing justice.


    Unless there's evidence of this being the case somehow, this strikes me as an emotional argument. I understand the motivation behind it, and sympathize with it, but that's emotional -- not a basis for law.
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think there's a lot behind it: the Rodney King riots, the Stonewall riots, the Civil Rights movement, the women's rights movement are all responses to the emotional harm caused by hate and oppression.
     
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Those are certainly responses to hate and oppression, but a lot of what you cited was in response to institutionalized and legal oppression. I'm not sure an individual race-based or sexuality-based crime does more emotional harm to our nation than, say, gang violence or other inner city crime, for one example.

    This does make me think of something, though. Presumably some of the people here who are making the argument that one murder is no worse than another murder would favor laws against terrorism, no? Anybody know if there are federal laws against terrorist attacks, or if state charges of murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, etc. are all that apply?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because of this legislation, hate crimes move from the city/coiunty/state arena into the federal one.. as there is more confidence with that system.

    Have a personal aversion to naming laws after people.. i.e. Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Law, James Byrd Hate Crimes Law, Casey Anthony Laws etc. .. laws that react to a specific situation, seem to defy the intent of the law making process and usually need continual revision.
     
  15. jcdavey

    jcdavey In the Starting Line-Up

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    technically everything premeditated is a hate crime, so i agree lol


    black on black isn't a race crime however



    majority of serial killers are white men


    no one crazy like a white man :rocker:
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is some excellent corroboration to support your POV... Klever Komments Komrade!!!!!

    Ethnic Crime Report II - Page 267 - Stormfront

    In memory of the victims of the undeclared war on our people - Stormfront

    Fake Hate Crimes (links & quotes only please) - Stormfront
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    This historically has been true. but in recent years has changed fairly rapidly.

    I don't think there is anything inherent about any race that makes them more likely to be a serial killer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    If it is not less of a crime, then why would there be lesser punishment?
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think if you spend time in any minority community, there's a degree of discomfort with the majority. Most minorities have had experiences of discrimination and prejudice by the majority (and in some cases other minorities). I have held three major jobs in my life (2 in technology, 1 in mental health). In each case, I experienced a homophobic situation that I had to bring to another level. My partner and I have experienced outright discrimination, though not often, but when it happens it's demeaning -- such as restaurants not seating us or serving us. (This happened last about 2 years ago in a southern US city.) More than once, a "Christian" has come over and tried to "save us." In addition not long ago an elderly condo committee member told me about a handyman "trying to Jew up" the prices on work she was having done, and years ago I experienced other episodes of anti-Semitism, one of which was very blatant. This is the reality that minorities live in, and that reality is only reinforced when someone is abused simply because of their race, religion, etc. I think most straight, white Christian men live in ivory towers when it comes to the matter of discrimination. I have an Irish last name, and on more than one occasion I got advantages because it was assumed that I was someone other than who I am. That said, I think compared to many I've been fortunate: I've known people who were beaten up for being gay, denied housing, denied promotions, and this goes on today.
     
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They try to ignore it shhhhhhhh, when Young Black Males kill Other Black People most Liberals Blame the Media Source that reports it, THE LEFT WING LIBERAL DOES NOT WANT THIS PROBLEM MENTIONED OR ADDRESSED.

    Dead Is Dead
    Murder Is Murder
    A Life Is A Life

    The poor little black kid that gets a STRAY gang banger bullet in the head, that little kids life was just as precious as Matthew Shepards was AND SO IS A DEAD COP WHO IS OUT ON THOSE STREETS AT NIGHT MAKING SURE A VERMIN DOESNT GET INTO OUR HOME AND KILL US.
     

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