Welcome to PatsFans.com

Has Belichick Showed all Defensive Schemes Yet?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JaxPats, Jan 17, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JaxPats

    JaxPats Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    There has been a lot talk concerning our defense. I for one think (and I hope is true) is that coach has not shown much because there really has not been a need to with this offensive line. They have shown they can pretty much score at will and looking back at the final scores in most games have had more than enough points to win. Granted there were a few nailbiters along the way, but defense has stepped up when needed. Brady in the clutch as we all know is also a huge factor. Was Belichick saving it for the playoffs as another weapon for the playoffs thinking we might end up with Indy? Does anyone else feel this might be the case? I'm thinking the defense will now show up huge.
  2. Bertil

    Bertil Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I doubt he shows much of anything defensively until the most critical times. When BB and RAC faced the "unstoppable" Colts in the '04 Divisional Round (in Jan of '05, with Gay at CB instead of Ty Law), Brady said that he knew Peyton was in for a long day when he saw what the D had in store. They had played it close to the vest all year until it was time to put the cards on the table. I'm thinking that that is the case this year too. The only caveat is that BB probably has felt that they'd be facing the Colts again. Now those schemes are going to be foisted upon Prince Philip at the most innoportune time. Good luck.
  3. JaxPats

    JaxPats Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    There also has been a lot of talk citing our D is ranked 5th overall in the league. Well, there are 4 teams left, so what does that make us. I have it at one. Am I wrong?
  4. hambone1818

    hambone1818 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    I don't really have time to find that article--and wouldn't even know where to begin, because I can't remember who wrote it--but someone posited the theory that the Patriots have run a vanilla defense for almost the entrity of the second half of the season as well as the JAX game. When you think about it, the defense hasn't blitzed much and been in very conservative formations for most of the year. When the Giants held a 12 point lead, you saw the defense open up, start blitzing more and they shut Eli down. Ditto the JAX game, they started blitzing more in the second half, putting more pressure on Garrard and only surrendered 6 points in the 2nd half.

    One could say this is a result of an older linebacking core (coaches saving the blitzes and exotic defensive packages for the 2nd half, when they theoretically mean more), but I think we see a different Pats defense this week. With LdT, Rivers and Gates hobbled, I think we see a ton of blitzes, and a defense that is very physical throughout the game.

    If we don't see this--and the Patriots still win--then I might be a little worried for the Super Bowl. I think if the defense, in fact, cannot handle a full all-out game like what we saw in the 4th quarter of the Giants game then either NFC opponent would present a huge challenge.
  5. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    I am sure that Belichick sat down after the Colts AFGCG loss and tried to figure out how to prevent it from happening again. I think "60 minutes" and the defensive style which has lead to fourth quarter shutdown of the otehr team is the result.
  6. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,911
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I think it will be much like last week. Fairly vanilla for the 1st half or so, just to see what the Chargers have in store for us.

    I'd imagine very little blitzing etc until the second half. That lets us rest, and adjust to what the Chargers have planned. Chargers probably score 14-17 in the first half and 3-7 in the second half or so.
  7. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    Bill Belichick likes to play one kind of defense in the first part of the game (could be first half, first 3 quarters, whatever he decides) then play a defense that looks like the original defense, but isn't. Imagine if you were a QB, and for 3 quarters a specific type of pass has been there. Then, in the 4th quarter, the Patriots start jumping that route, leaving something else open. Would you be able to identify it right away, or would you go back to that same type of pass over and over expecting it to work because it had been working for the whole game?
  8. JaxPats

    JaxPats Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    [I think we see a ton of blitzes, and a defense that is very physical throughout the game.

    I agree completly. Of the two remaining games I would have to say this is the tougher of them. I'm not dissing Gb but I feel very confident that the defense can handle them quite nicely. Anothe poster said: That Belichick runs a certain D for the first half or so, then runs something else for the 3rd to the 4th quarter to really confuse the other team. I agree with this aspect also. As I said in my initial post though, I doubt the coach has shown what he really wants yet and will shut them down easily. JMO.
  9. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +25 / 0 / -0

    We have the best defense in the league.

    Giants have the second best.

    Then, Green Bay.

    the Bolts round out the list of the 4 team league.

    28 Teams are no longer in the NFL as far as anyone is concerned.
  10. Grogan's neck roll

    Grogan's neck roll Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I disagree with this aspect of what you wrote. My take is, with SD banged up as they are, my guess is that BB might wait another game to "unleash the hounds". It could be they still play it fairly close to the vest against the Chargers, then really mix it up in the SB, especially if they play GB and they have a very experienced QB.
  11. hambone1818

    hambone1818 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2007
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    You could be right there. I was thinking more along the lines of 'come out with guns blazing' to completely dismantle an already beaten up team, then scale back as necessary dependant upon the score. That said, another vanilla first half wouldn't be the worst thing, now that I'm thinking about it--because of the Chargers injuries, as you mentioned.
  12. SVN

    SVN Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2005
    Messages:
    22,514
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    i think schemes are overrated especially at this time of the season. team which can execute and make less mistakes will win as cliched as it sounds. i doubt BB hid something intentionally otherwise the statue of liberty play on offense for e.g wasnt really necesary to 'show' against the jags. he will do what it takes to win the game
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,727
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I don't think we have the personnel to run many if any of the complex schemes we ran in years past.
    Thomas and Seau do not have the time served and/or skill set needed to run the digiuses properly.

    And add to that, that last week Gay struggled in the vanilla defense. It was uglier than a Polian family reunion on Halloween.
  14. Funktopus

    Funktopus Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    In the last 2 games the pats have produced interceptions at critical moments. I watched the NFL network re-broadcast of the jags game. After Garrard throws the interception, he says (in the little pop-up interview window at the bottom of the screen) that the pats had been defending him one way all day, but on rodney's interception, the defense showed one thing but did another resulting in the interception.

    There's a huge benefit to being able to adjust at the right time. Turn overs at the beginning of the game don't necessarily break your back - see GB/Seattle. the past 2 weeks turn overs have been critical in putting the game almost out of reach for the opponent.

    And I don't see this as a turn it on/turn it off thing for the pats as both the "off" and the "on" are intentional. it's their tactic (i hope :D).
  15. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I haven't seen the 'standing around pointing and looking confused' defense for quite a while.

    Barry
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    They've been playing a conservative defense, particularly in the first half of games. Maybe they tighten up on the receivers, I thought they would have fro the Jags game, but who is to argue with the soft zone that has so far produced 17 straight wins, and 17 straight confused and angry QBs in the 4th quarter. The play it soft & adjust strategy has got them this far. It's no surprise, look back at all the games, how many games did the defense step it up and come up with a game-ending pick, turnover or stop in the 4th? All the tight games, they came through.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  17. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,367
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    True to BB's unpredictable form, once other teams started doing it he moved onto something else.
  18. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,697
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +33 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    He actually said that the Patriots showed them a defense on that play that they had never seen before so they had not prepared for it. That's a bigger deal than just changing up defenses because it shows they still have tricks up their sleeves.

    It also impressed me that Garrard was that prepared that he understood all of this without having to go back and watch the film.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
  19. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +18 / 1 / -0

    I think we needed Duane Starks for that.
  20. mosi

    mosi Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Agree with that 100%. Did anybody hear David Garrard talk about his interception after the game. He said that the play was there all day and Rodney was never in that position. However, for some reason, on that pay, Rodney was there and picked the pass off. That is what the Patriots do. People keep saying they play a very vanilla defense, and they do. However, they get you believing you are in the game when in reality, you are not even in the ballpark.
  21. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,171
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    He won't unleash his full genius until the Super Bowl.
  22. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    I don't believe that Belichick enters a game determined to hold back, to run a vanilla defense so he doesn't give anything away for the future.

    The games are usually too close for this.

    Belichick is all about one game at a time. What is the best defense to counter the problems this specific offense offers? Let's win this game, and then move on.

    If 'releasing the hounds' means blitzing, then they blitz when they feel it's an advantage. In the Jacksonville game, Jacksonville rarely blitzed but instead dropped most of the defense into coverage. Brady, with the extra time, hit Welker, Faulk, and Maroney, averaging only six yards per completion or so to those receivers, but with a 93% completion rate, that didn't lead to too many third downs. However, Jacksonville didn't feel that they had an advantage by blitzing. In the past, New England has used this approach against Manning, dropping lots of players into coverage. In the Jan 2007 AFC Championship Game, Manning used that defense to do the same thing Brady did against the Jaguars -- he hit the underneath guy in the middle of the field, and the receiver picked up plenty of yardage.

    In the Giants game, I felt that New England decided they were not being successful in coverage and had to increase the pressure, taking the risk of open receivers. Eli Manning was more accurate and patient than they expected. They adjusted by increased blitz pressure, and were successful with the pressure in the second half. That doesn't mean that they went in with a plan of one defense in the first half, and another in the second half.

    This argument essentially posits that Belichick says:
    We want to let them score a couple times in the first half.

    That's absolutely crazy.

    Belichick would like to score every time they have the ball, and stop the opponent every single time they have the ball.

    Now, another, different, question is:
    Have the Patriots showed all the defensive schemes they are capable of yet?

    The answer to that question is no.

    Recall the Philly Superbowl year.
    They played Pittsburgh by attacking their safeties, going over the top, and running a high-scoring offense, forcing Pittsburgh to try to keep up.
    The following week they ground it out against the Colts, keeping the score low, flooding the passing lanes with defenders, keeping the Colts in long drives.
    In the Super Bowl, they unveiled a defense featuring five linebackers and only two linemen, keying on McNabb and Westbrook in space.

    They showed three entirely different approaches.
    But they designed a gameplan for each individual opponent.

    That's the approach the Pats take.

    They will design a defense for the Chargers that addresses the specific strengths of the Chargers. If it doesn't work, they will adjust over half-time.

    But this isn't a case of them having a great defense, but not unveiling it.
  23. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,171
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    I'm convinced, but I guarantee he has some tricks up his sleeve on offense.
  24. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    4,097
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    I actually do think he's been playing things relatively close to the vest, but it's not entirely clear to me how much is left in the vault.

    Probably not much. A few tricks here or there, but I don't think full schemes.

    He's pulled a few things out when he's needed them that I bet he would have rather saved. For example, the two-point conversion play against the Giants was an exceptionally well designed play that I bet they've been practicing all year. I'm guessing he wouldn't mind still having that in his pocket. The "statue of liberty" play against the Jags also was something he might not have wanted to see run if the game hadn't been tied. (Although it may also be that he specifically wanted that play for that game, since he knew the Jags had seen the direct-snap to Faulk play before and were more likely to bite.)

    At the same time, I think he's shown some stuff deliberately just to show it, to set up other stuff -- like the flea flicker against the Steelers. I think he wanted teams to see that, to give them more to worry about.

    I'm sure there are similar examples on both sides on defense, but it's a lot harder to understand defensive schemes just by watching on tv.

    I think our defense is what it is, and we're not going to see some new guys out there all of the sudden. When teams are losing and have to press, our defense is fantastic and very opportunistic. When the games are close, we play a much more bend-but-try-not-to-break defense that is susceptible to long drives if our opponent is content to try to grind it out and not go for the home run. (Just ask A.J. Feeley.)

    We're not a team that turns our opponents over as much as I'd like. The team is tied for 10th in the league in takeaways (31), which is very respectable, but I think they kind of slowed down in this category toward the end of the season. (Compare this to San Diego, which led the league with 48.)

    I'm not expecting anything that different from what we've seen. Hopefully we'll get some early points and our defense will pounce on mistakes.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2008
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page