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Has Belichick ever fired a coach?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patriot Missile, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I was just wondering because I can't recall a coach being let go mid or in the offseason in his tenure. Seems they all get promoted.
  2. Patjew

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    Pees.
    ........
  3. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    But not in midseason

    Besides its too late to change the clowns on this coaching staff the year and expect the team to remain in focus

    Matt Patricia is horrible....the firing should start right there in March
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  4. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    Pees wasn't technically fired. He and BB butted heads over schematic decisions and he left after his contract expired. He's the DC in Baltimore now so... yeah.

    The "one that got away" in my opinion was Dom Capers, our special teams coach in 2009. He wanted to be the DC badly. We didn't give him the chance and now he's in GB. Sure, GB had a down year on D last year mostly due to injuries but it's back to being a good unit gain and has been that way most of his tenure there.
  5. Big-T

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    Took his bog standard soft zones to Baltimore too!

    Ravens fans moan about him as much as this board did and aren't they ranked in the 20s defensively this year?
  6. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    Corwin Brown was let go after one season.
  7. blackglass3

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    He wasn't the special teams coach, he had some strange hybrid title. DB Coach/Defensive Quality Control/Assistant Head Coach. Something along those lines.
  8. BelichickFan

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    He was the DC in every way except the title last year - I wouldn't be waiting around for that prediction of yours to come true.
  9. rlcarr

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    I still wonder if Capers was insurance (possibly even put in by Kraft) in case Goodell went off the deep end and suspended BB for 2008.
  10. Deus Irae

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    Suggs, Lewis and Webb all being injured might have a bit to do with the Ravens' struggles.

    Pees has now been positioned as the DC for two aging/rebuilding defenses. That's a "no win" situation for the guy.
  11. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Looks like your question/implied point is a good one. Doesn't appear as though Belichick is nearly as dispassionate--to put it mildly--with coaches as he is with players.

    What we see is what we're going to get for the foreseeable future, apparently. Unfortunately.
  12. Hardboiled

    Hardboiled Rookie

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    I think Mangini was fired...right after he took the Jets job.

    BB scribbled a note, "You are no longer DC of the NEP." I think there may have been some other letters added at the end.
  13. nekromantique

    nekromantique Rookie

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    defense got a bit more complex down the stretch last year...so it will be interesting to see if it happens again this year.

    however secondary coaches definitely need to go.



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  14. DaBruinz

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    And what if they are doing exactly what BB wants but the players just aren't executing? Then what? How about you go and read some stuff about the secondary and what they are taught instead of just making lame statements that you can't back up except that you feel the need to blame someone..
  15. Sciz

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    I won't commit to anything on the secondary coaches, but anybody who wants Patricia gone is going to be awfully disappointed. He was basically the DC last year and was promoted this offseason.
  16. MoLewisrocks

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    Bill has never fired a position coach or coordinator. He's allowed some to walk at the end of their contracts and he does that either because they aren't seemingly growing or they are not content in their present position and want a promotion he is either unable or unwilling to give them.

    The lone exception would be Corwin Brown, but not sure what length of deal he was here on and he apparently had personal mental issues which became public shortly after he departed.

    Pees left in search of autonomy, similar to why RAC and Charlie left (although they specifically wanted HC positions). Ditto Mangenius. And McDaniels. There are probably a handful of guys who left that Bill regrets losing, guys who were stuck for a time behind incumbants he was not prepared to shoe out the door who got offers with a clearer path for advancement elsewhere. Rob Ryan would be one example as here he was behind both RAC and Eric on the ladder. Dimetroff was similarly stuck behind Pioli for as long as he chose to remain, although while he and Bill remain close I'm not sure how they would have handled working together directly because Dimetroff appears to be his own man moreso than most of Bill's student apprentices. More like Ozzy who learned a lot from Bill but had his own vision of how to build a team/organization even based on that foundation. Most of the guys who left because they got passed over for promotion here (like Daboll who followed Mangini to NY and Cleveland and Davidson who followed RAC to Cleveland) have floundered on the teams that offered them upward mobility.

    Kraft has zero input in football ops personnel decisions. Coaching is a fraternity and Bill apparently felt that Dom had gotten the short end of the stick in both of his failed HC gigs on expansion teams as well as in Miami where he went down on Bill's BFF Nick Saban's brief watch as an NFL HC after a 1-15 season. His future was looking rather bleak, although already struggling second year Cowboys HC Wade Phillips (or his boss) reportedly offered him a position as LB's coach. BB gave his profile a boost by offering him a position as secondary coach/special assistant (and not Asst. HC as we have one already) on a team that had far less potential to further damage his resume. He came in after the SB and while the Matt Walsh crap was unfolding the team knew there would be no additional penalties because they knew the rumor was crap. And if they were ever in a position to need an interim HC that is Scar's job.

    Matt Patricia has been here since 2004. He's climbed the ladder and been patient. The idea that Bill would punish him for doing what he's told and dealing with a defense in transition he has little input into the make up of is wishful thinking on the part of those who always opt to just blame the coordinator because those guys are easily replaced with a name they recognize. You know, like a Spagnuolo who has really failed miserably apart from his 2007 stint with a loaded Giants defense...
  17. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    It's easy to blame the coordinator when he employs a very predictable vanilla defense that does nothing to help the secondary. You don't need to be an NFL guru to see that the talented individual play creates the pressure not the scheme. Questionable coaching decisions week in and week out for example, why would you ever drop Spikes into pass coverage in more than a few occasions. Does he not realize how slow he is? Where are the CB/safety blitzes?????? Not a single person in our secondary has a sack this year. His safe and soft schemes IMO are actually hurting the secondary because their is not enough pressure on the QB especially if you ONLY rely on the dlineman to create that pressure. Patricia needs to be demoted back to LB coach where his vanilla mind will work just fine. We need some creativity in our defense.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  18. Rob0729

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    As MoLewis points out, other than Corwin Brown I can't think of anyone.
  19. MoLewisrocks

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    They aren't his safe and soft schemes any more than they were Pees... Those are Bill's, he makes the decision on personnel and approach, the coordinator here is just tasked with implementing it. Particularly on defense which is Bill's perview.

    Josh's situation is similar although he's been given more input on personnel and more autonomy in game planning. He was tasked in the offseason with figuring out a way to eliminate any defenses ability to stop this offense in crunch time. His ideas aren't anything genius, adding a viable outside threat - did that last season only Bill chose the wrong guy. Although there has been a headscratching twist to his plan that may or may not have been his idea. Attempting to limit the best slot WR in the league in order to feature more of a young TE who tends to get injured and a developmental UDFA swiss army knife backup WR/PR who also tends to get injured. And developing the illusion of a running game by running wild when opportunity knocks. Granted, injuries and retirements in the trenches have to some extent flumoxed the plans, but most of that was forseeable and some of it may have been for the better. Then there is the matter of the health of the dynamic TE duo backed up by a boatload of equally health challenged TE's. And at the end of the day the real problem with the offense last season was poor personnel choices and unfortunate health issues regarding their more prolific TE and injury concerns including one we never knew about in the trenches and inability to run the damn ball when we really needed to.

    PS. Dean Pees used to like to blitz. I remember that from February 2008...
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  20. nekromantique

    nekromantique Rookie

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    you can create pressure rushing just 4 but not the usual front 4 that contains wilfork and love in the middle. they aren't pass rushers... the pressure that comes when Cunningham comes on in a tackle role is obvious. but I agree...when you have those guys on...rushing 4 isnt ideal...but they draw double teams...which opens gaps that are great for blitzing



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  21. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Rookie

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    Why has our baffling and once feared defense of yesteryear from the Crenel and Mangini sooo obviously different from our current defense in schemes and disguises? Watch old games and see how hard it was to decipher our coverage or blitz packages. Yet BB wants to stray away from what has obviously worked and what gave him 3 superbowl rings? Thats a tough pill to swallow.

    Yes everyone agrees he oversees the philosophy and core of what the defense should be, and that essentially has never changed since he has been here: Don't give up the big play and try to take away what they are good at. That aspect has never changed but defensive scheming drastically has since the departure of Mangini. If you watch every game, you can see Patricia calling his so easy to read, xbox 360 Madden 13 playbook style defense and the results have obviously shown to back up what im saying. Look no further by seeing scrub QB's week in and week out torch our secondary. If it wasnt for our fantastic front 7, we would also get burned from the run.

    In the yesteryear, it seemed like no matter who they put back in the secondary they would ALL be successful. Even Troy Brown made a hell of a CB!!! But now it seems like no matter who you put in the secondary, even Revis would be mediocre.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  22. chasa

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    If ron riviera gets let go in Carolina i think that we should bring him in.
  23. MoLewisrocks

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    Inexperience. Especially instinctively leadership wise in the secondary. Plain and simple. This defense is very young and very inexperienced and in some areas less gifted than it was in RAC's tenure here. And even then they gave up late leads including in all 3 super bowls we won...not to mention the one we lost as they aged out (even as Pees had them blitzing like idiots) and the one we lost last year that we were at least fortunate enough to attend...
  24. MoLewisrocks

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    As what, a position coach? Honestly, he's a former player who only succeeded as a coordinator on a team he spent his career with where the HC was actually running the defense, and a pretty talented one to boot, and he let him go over ego and philosophy. Since then he's done a lackluster job in SD who seemed reluctant to give him that job to begin with and he's made a mess of the defense in Carolina as it's HC and gotten the guy who hired him fired 6 weeks into his second season. Hell will freeze over first. He has no ties to Belichick or the system we employ.
  25. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    You want to start pointing fingers and calling out coaches - Start with the Head Coach. Nothing happens without his approval. From defensive/offensive schemes to who cleans the lockeroom - It's all Bill.

    Of course, I say that and there's NO one I want other than Bill. I want him to stay for 10 more years.

    However, If Kraft would like to hire a GM and take some of that off Bill - I'd be all for that at some point in the future.
  26. MoLewisrocks

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    You better pray he doesn't then because if he did that Bill would resign as the HC of the NEP on a ****tail napkin or whatever else was handy. Bill won't be your HC unless he has total control of football operations including final say on personnel. Same think he advised all his minions to always hold out for. Otherwise you're constantly at someone else's mercy. Nick Caserio is his director of player personnel, same title Pioli held with the added aura of VP. But he reported to Bill and Bill had final say. Scott was never given the GM title here, he just acted like one for public purposes. Bill is the defacto GM. And will be until the day he departs as HC.
  27. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    Yes. I know all of this.

    My point which may have been lost is simple:

    If you choose to talk of the genius of Bill and then when things go wrong people want to talk about/blame the assistant coaches and discuss their NE Football mortality - then people (Homers) need to think hard about what control those guys have outside of Bill.

    It's all Bill. All the time. And for the most part, it works amazingly well.
  28. goheels22002

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    #50 Jersey

    I think the full text of the note read:

    "Fredo,

    You are no longer DC of the NEP, you yellow little rat snitch ingrate. Please leave the tapes on my desk on your way out.

    HC of the NEP"
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