Harrison's 2006 Impact Overstated

[mgteich]

Harrison may come back, but I think of the situation as being more similar to Colvin than Bruschi. And even the effect of Bruschi's return has been greatly overstated.

The issue is how soon he will be a top player, and be able to perform anywhere near past levels.

After all, Colvin took a couple of years, and even now nowhere near his former self (would you sign him up for $5M a year?).

Personally, I expect Harrison to be on PUP, come back at mid-season, and be part of a 3-man safety rotation.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Harrison may come back, but I think of the situation as being more similar to Colvin than Bruschi. And even the effect of Bruschi's return has been greatly overstated.

The issue is how soon he will be a top player, and be able to perform anywhere near past levels.

After all, Colvin took a couple of years, and even now nowhere near his former self (would you sign him up for $5M a year?).

Personally, I expect Harrison to be on PUP, come back at mid-season, and be part of a 3-man safety rotation.

When he returns is all guess work on your part as it is with any one of us and the media.

However, I do disagree that you consider his impact as "overrated". If Rodney can come back and be 85% of what he was, that's 100% better than 95% of the SS in this league.

I think that his loss was underated by most people and his return will be huge.

 

[BelichickFan]

Speed and quickness was never that important to Harrison so it may not have a big effect on his game - but he can't afford to lose much of either. I guess we'll see how they feel about Hawkins, Scott and Sanders based on who they go after in the draft and FA. We continued to play good pass defense with Hawkins in there against Denver so he may be acceptable for next season with a full offseason behind him.

I'm hoping Sanders or Scott can be a good starter, Sanders was one of the youngest players in last year's draft. If they're more backup quality, I wouldn't hesitate to use one of our top picks on a Safety.

 

[ilduce06410]

my money's on guss scott

Speed and quickness was never that important to Harrison so it may not have a big effect on his game - but he can't afford to lose much of either. I guess we'll see how they feel about Hawkins, Scott and Sanders based on who they go after in the draft and FA. We continued to play good pass defense with Hawkins in there against Denver so he may be acceptable for next season with a full offseason behind him.

I'm hoping Sanders or Scott can be a good starter, Sanders was one of the youngest players in last year's draft. If they're more backup quality, I wouldn't hesitate to use one of our top picks on a Safety.

rodney and bruschi are similar in that their video-graded performances are only part of the story. remember that they are both play-callers, and both move players around according to what they think they see. IMO both were missed as much in those capacities as they were at ILB and SS.
i'm not talking "intangibles", i'm talking leadership roles that others did not adequately fill.
with bruschi back, patriots run defense resumed play a la the 2004 version -- smothering and overrunning running plays, instead of the desperate hand-tackling we saw from beisel and brown. surely much of that was also due to the return of a certain all-world DL.
but with harrison gone, IMO the CBs and safeties wound up doing a lot of hitting that their bodies couldn't withstand--ergo all the injuries. it's one thing for rodney to come up and lay the wood to a 225-lb RB. it's a different matter to have wilson (190) or hawkins (195) or stone (195) or asante (185) or hobbs (188) come up and put a shoulder into somebody. IMO patriots need to draft one of those crazy 220-lb safeties if they want to have the same kind of defense next year. what we have is cover guys, not a single hitter besides rodney (and guss scott).

 

[BelichickFan]

what we have is cover guys, not a single hitter besides rodney (and guss scott).

Sanders is supposed to be a big hitter, although he's not as big as Harrison. I would definitely like to draft a 22 year old Rodney, even if it's with our #1 or #2 pick.

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we need big hitters, especially at strong safety. Many of us are looking at college linebackers for strong safeties.

rodney and bruschi are similar in that their video-graded performances are only part of the story. remember that they are both play-callers, and both move players around according to what they think they see. IMO both were missed as much in those capacities as they were at ILB and SS.
i'm not talking "intangibles", i'm talking leadership roles that others did not adequately fill.
with bruschi back, patriots run defense resumed play a la the 2004 version -- smothering and overrunning running plays, instead of the desperate hand-tackling we saw from beisel and brown. surely much of that was also due to the return of a certain all-world DL.
but with harrison gone, IMO the CBs and safeties wound up doing a lot of hitting that their bodies couldn't withstand--ergo all the injuries. it's one thing for rodney to come up and lay the wood to a 225-lb RB. it's a different matter to have wilson (190) or hawkins (195) or stone (195) or asante (185) or hobbs (188) come up and put a shoulder into somebody. IMO patriots need to draft one of those crazy 220-lb safeties if they want to have the same kind of defense next year. what we have is cover guys, not a single hitter besides rodney (and guss scott).

 

[mgteich]

Vrabel getting healthy and Sey coming back were more important than Bruschi's return. Vrabel can call plays. It is somewhat sad that Wilson is not up to the taks after several years in the defense. Harrison shouldn't be the only db signal caller.

rodney and bruschi are similar in that their video-graded performances are only part of the story. remember that they are both play-callers, and both move players around according to what they think they see. IMO both were missed as much in those capacities as they were at ILB and SS.
i'm not talking "intangibles", i'm talking leadership roles that others did not adequately fill.
with bruschi back, patriots run defense resumed play a la the 2004 version -- smothering and overrunning running plays, instead of the desperate hand-tackling we saw from beisel and brown. surely much of that was also due to the return of a certain all-world DL.
but with harrison gone, IMO the CBs and safeties wound up doing a lot of hitting that their bodies couldn't withstand--ergo all the injuries. it's one thing for rodney to come up and lay the wood to a 225-lb RB. it's a different matter to have wilson (190) or hawkins (195) or stone (195) or asante (185) or hobbs (188) come up and put a shoulder into somebody. IMO patriots need to draft one of those crazy 220-lb safeties if they want to have the same kind of defense next year. what we have is cover guys, not a single hitter besides rodney (and guss scott).

 

[spacecrime]

If Rodney can come back and be 85% of what he was, that's 100% better than 95% of the SS in this league.

There is a 50% chance that over 75% of us agree 100%

 

[Mike the Brit]

Vrabel getting healthy and Sey coming back were more important than Bruschi's return. Vrabel can call plays. It is somewhat sad that Wilson is not up to the taks after several years in the defense. Harrison shouldn't be the only db signal caller.

That's a big assertion. Personally, I was ASTONISHED at how much impact Bruschi seemed to have. In particular, I think he did wonders for the pass coverage (trademark flying leaps to knock down passes to Tight Ends).

 

[BelichickFan]

That's a big assertion. Personally, I was ASTONISHED at how much impact Bruschi seemed to have.

Tedy had an impact, no doubt. But his return coincided with :

- Vrabel moving inside.
- Colvin's resurgence.
- Seymour's return.
- Wilfork's resurgence.
- Hobbs moving in and being a very good tackler.
- Hawkins moving in and playing solidly.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Tedy had an impact, no doubt. But his return coincided with :

- Vrabel moving inside.
- Colvin's resurgence.
- Seymour's return.
- Wilfork's resurgence.
- Hobbs moving in and being a very good tackler.
- Hawkins moving in and playing solidly.

All true, but Bruschi had a big impact from the first game back. I'm not sure all those other things happened immediately.

 

[p8ryts]

A Piece of the puzzle

Belichick is right, maybe pieces came together to improve the defense. When Rodney returns he will still be an important piece. It was never his speed and athleticism that set him apart, it was always his attitude, toughness and leadership.

If we didn't have injuries (which we will) we would be in great shape. My concern is the O line. Can it improve with experience and returning injured starters? I don't know the answer here. We've won with many of the same players.

 

[mgteich]

We could have another poll on this. I think the last result asking for the most important player to the improvement of the defense in the second half was: 1) Vrabel (getting healthy and moving inside), 2) Seymour (getting healthy) and 3) Bruschi

Tedy had an impact, no doubt. But his return coincided with :

- Vrabel moving inside.
- Colvin's resurgence.
- Seymour's return.
- Wilfork's resurgence.
- Hobbs moving in and being a very good tackler.
- Hawkins moving in and playing solidly.

 

[flutie2phelan]

Tedy had an impact, no doubt. But his return coincided with :

- Vrabel moving inside.
- Colvin's resurgence.
- Seymour's return.
- Wilfork's resurgence.
- Hobbs moving in and being a very good tackler.
- Hawkins moving in and playing solidly.

Not synchronous ... but still invites the question. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[ilduce06410]

big sey earthquake

Vrabel getting healthy and Sey coming back were more important than Bruschi's return. Vrabel can call plays. It is somewhat sad that Wilson is not up to the taks after several years in the defense. Harrison shouldn't be the only db signal caller.

LBs are really important in BB's defense, but it's hard to imagine any player has as much effect as the return of an All-Pro DL. so i guess i'm big sey is fun to watch, he takes full force of an OT on a block, stands him up, neutralizes him, and then throws him aside to make tackles. watch him more closely, folks. i can't isolate a LB's impact with that of a one-of-a-kind DL. i give.
according to SI, vrabel may be one of the smartest players in the AFC east.
truth be told, i've never seen an OLB call plays. never seen a CB call plays. perhaps vrabel was moved inside to take that role. but tedy came back 2 games later.
hard to believe, as well, that geno doesn't understand the D as well as any player out there. he's a typical BB player--draft report said the usual "smart, tough, leader (team captain,) a little mean, plays hurt". still a mystery.

 

[PATSNUTme]

There is a 50% chance that over 75% of us agree 100%

That is only 65% accurate.

 

[buile]

Opponents being able to run up the middle on us virtually disappeared within a game or two of Bruschi's return.

As pointed out, a lot of things converged up front, and i'm sure that contributed to the secondary stabilizing.

I feel very good about next year, and would feel even better if Harrison comes back healthy. Maybe i'm dreaming, but plugging him back into a stable secondary will move him from trying to hold it all together by himself (like it seemed at the beginning of the year), to getting back to being the play-maker he has been.

 

[ilduce06410]

harrison and an heir-apparent

Opponents being able to run up the middle on us virtually disappeared within a game or two of Bruschi's return.
As pointed out, a lot of things converged up front, and i'm sure that contributed to the secondary stabilizing.
I feel very good about next year, and would feel even better if Harrison comes back healthy. Maybe i'm dreaming, but plugging him back into a stable secondary will move him from trying to hold it all together by himself (like it seemed at the beginning of the year), to getting back to being the play-maker he has been.

if he's willing (to do the ridiculous rehab required to play again in the nfl), i sure do want him back. in any case, we need to draft a 220-lb version of a BB player (repeat after me: smart, tough player, a little mean, team leader-type, plays with pain) safety for rodney to groom.

 

[jczxohn1]

Rodney will no doubt do everything humanly possible to rehab and come back next year. That said, it's a 2 yr injury. Magahee in Buffalo had a similar injury and had to share reps with Henry his first year back in spite of the fact that he was 10 yrs younger than Rodney. To expect him to be fully rehabbed even after 6 wks on the PUP list is too optimistic, IMO.

 

[skri65]

i miss rodney