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Hamas rejects another ceasefire

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by SalemPats, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Harry Boy

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    Worrying About The Children:

    It is the Hamas Adult Savages that should be worrying about the children.
     
  2. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Unbelievable....one Progessive answers....."differently"....another answers..."not what they are doing". Typical.

    Let's try just one more time......let's see if our British Progressive friend can come up with his own answers instead of singing from the Progressive hymnal.

    One last time....what, specifically, should Israel do in this situation. We get that you want them to do something differently. Now what should they do...specifically.
     
  3. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    You said peace plans. That's a far cry from cease fires. As for rejecting initial drafts, that's part and parcel of diplomacy. Be reasonable.
     
  4. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    1. The AK
    2. The olive drab is wrong.
    3. The shirt is not tucked in.
    4. The boots are wrong.
    5. The trousers are bloused.
    6. The pants are the incorrect style.

    I remember going through an exercise in identifying staged photos like this. It really is amazing how many of these types of things are floating around out there.
     
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  5. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    You're operating under many misconceptions here. First of all, yes, there have been advances in the last 5-6 years to assist in shooting down rockets that come across the border. However, the system is very expensive, which means it can only be deployed to the most populated target areas (Ashkelon, Tel Aviv, etc). Due to the limited number of anti-rocket batteries and the high volume of fire coming from Gaza, it is impossible to intercept them all.

    Furthermore, it is poor strategy to simply let your enemy bleed you to death financially by spending millions upon millions on ammunition for the anti-rocket batteries, while doing nothing to stop the rocket attacks. No responsible government would follow that course of action, and it is immoral to hold Israel to a standard by which no other nation is held.

    If Hamas is staging attacks from neighborhoods and storing weapons in homes and schools, and Israel is (rightly) seeking to stop rocket attacks, what is your proposal? Sending in troops is reckless, due to the high number of booby traps laid out by Hamas. The only real option is to use aircraft strikes. Given that reality, Israel appears to take pains to avoid civilian casualties by giving up the element of surprise with advanced warning. Once again, this is a military standard to which no other nation operates.

    If you think Israel is carpet-bombing Gaza, you are displaying extreme ignorance about the nature of modern payloads. Israel could flatten Gaza in less than 24 hours with indiscriminate strikes, killing tens of thousands easily. In other words, ditch the hyperbole. It undermines your position.

    I won't argue that the blockade is a strategic blunder. Israel would have been better off to let Hamas sink on their own. Instead, Israel provided Hamas with legitimacy by affording them the ability to blame Israel for their ineffectual governance.

    You still haven't proven that. I will continue to call you out on this in an effort to defeat the whole "if you tell a lie enough, people will believe it" phenomenon.

    They were elected, but make no bones about it, Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist.
     
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  6. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

  7. Nikolai

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    #54 Jersey

    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Really defies logic how some don't see this ...

    All the killing and bloodshed is over power and $$$.

    The more killing and ruthless you are the higher you move up the ranks and start earning.

    Not to hard to do in countries that do not have free speech ... not hard at all.
     
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  9. Harry Boy

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  10. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    There are plenty things Israel could do, including withdrawing all settlements and actually making a two state solution a priority.

    Pro-Israelis treat the situation in a vacuum and pretend Palestinians are shooting rockets for no reason.

    No, absent a conventional army and any real peaceful protestation tactic their 'terrorism' is the only way to try to force a change in the status quo.

    For Palestinians 'peace' on Israeli terms is a return to losing land to settlements on the West Bank, having the Gaza economy (as admitted by the IDF) kept purposefully on the edge of collapse, and living in an open-air prison.

    You can excuse them for wanting war, even if it means they're gonna get slaughtered.
     
  11. Nikolai

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    #54 Jersey

    This is a treat.

    Shouldn't Hamas also make the two-state solution a priority, or should that only be Israel's prerogative? I'm in favor of putting illegal settlements on the altar.

    Do you know why they shoot rockets? There is one simple irrefutable answer, and it's probably not what you think.

    ...or they could have accepted statehood the two times it was offered to them. You put "terrorism" in quotation marks. Why?

    The blockade is not smart. I'll grant that. What was wrong with the 2000 peace plan brokered by Clinton? Do you remember who walked away from that?

    Are you suggesting that they want war, knowing they'll be slaughtered? Then is all the Palestinian caterwauling to the international press simply a case of "thou doth protest too much"?
     
  12. PatsFanLisa

    PatsFanLisa On the Roster

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    Just going to pipe in here to respond to a few different posters with my opinions.

    First, let me state what I see here:

    1. Israel would exist in peace for the rest of eternity if given that chance.
    2. Hamas (and other similar terrorist groups) would like to end Israel's existence, along with every Jew that lives there.

    It's really that simple. Israel has a right to defend itself, at all costs. They have been barraged by missiles and rockets for months and months. They have been attacked by virtue of the underground tunnels built by Hamas, which is actually a misnomer since it's well known that at least 160 Palestinian children were killed forcibly building those tunnels, and probably more.

    Now, since Hamas would like nothing more than to wipe Israel and, by extension, its Jews off the face of the earth, opening the borders is an illogical measure. Once the floodgates are opened, Israel no longer is the Jewish state that it has the right to be and was declared, and Palestinians will run wild and take over. Not that that has a chance of success, since Israel has a superior military and supreme intelligence.

    So, RIPF, as a liberal writing here, as you well know, let me answer your repeated question. Israel should and has the right to do exactly what it has been doing...defending itself against further attack by attacking Hamas' launch sites, which just so happen to be housed in schools, hospitals, residences, by design by Hamas so they can propagandize to the entire world what barbarian terrorists the Israelis are, while cloaking their leaders in innocent human beings. The civilians were warned, continue to be warned, not once, not twice, but over and over and over again, where the attacks would be targeted. Flyers were dropped TELLING them exactly where and when and what would be next. They choose to listen to their elected leadership, Hamas, telling them to stay, they'll be safe. Guess that isn't working out so well for them.

    As far as where should they go? I don't care where they go. There are a dozen other countries of Arabic descent which practice the Muslim religion. Go there. Be with like-minded people. Raise your "innocent" children as they do, with guns in their hands aimed at everyone else.

    Is this genocide? No, it most certainly is not. It is what is called paying the price for attacking another nation and its innocent people. War crimes? Most certainly not. The warnings were and are explicit and numerous, and the only ones willing and open to compromise are the Israelis.

    I find it disgraceful that so many people I've spoken with are pro-Hamas, pro-Palestinian, and consider Israel to be the terrorists. Was Israel the terrorist nation when three young teenage boys were kidnapped and killed? Was Israel the terrorist nation when Hamas launched a thousand missiles into Israeli cities? But how about the US killing 5000 civilians, women and children, when it attacked Iraq? Anti-Semitism is alive and kicking right here in the United States and worldwide.

    I say live and let live, but my other philosophy is if you come after me, you and everyone around you is going down. Good for Israel. Enough is enough.
     
  13. Harry Boy

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    Now your going to get it, the new American Liberal's who used to go ballistic with their accusations of "anti semitism" have suddenly changed their minds now most of them support and shower sympathy on the very people who want to kill every Jew in the world.

    Hamas could stop the killing of it's children today all they have to do is stop bombing Israel.
     
  14. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    Widely under reported is what kind of Arabs (Muslims) live in Gaza?

    That answer would be Sunni Muslims ...

    Now Israel does bear some blame here ... they propped up Hamas to counter the Shia Hezbollah.

    Where have we seen this type of deal backfire in the Middle East?

    In any case I like the post above ... Israel has a right to defend itself. There is huge money involved with Sunni based terrorism and Shia based terrorism ... this is part of that ugly mess... Israel needs to chop down the huge weed known as Hamas ... and they are.

    Once again may I thrown in ... the biggest thorn in the side of the USA ...

    Our supposed allies in Saudi Arabia and Qatar - huge pipelines of Sunni based terrorism $$$.

    Let's not forget our Hamas billionaires ...
     
  15. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    What are you talking about? I want to wait for clarification here before I go on.

    Good points here. The amount of Saudi money that goes toward Hamas isn't exactly known, but it is substantial.
     
  16. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

    also as i research this more and more it is said that Israel does not want to abolish Hamas ... just to wound them ... they still want them around ... the sick and twisted politics of the Middle East. If Hamas is destroyed then that helps the creation of another ISIL.
     
  17. DarrylS

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    What does Hamas Millionaires have to do with this?? Isn't it ok to make some money in this world, or is that bad if it does not agree with your POV??...

    Remember the diatribe when money is ever brought up in this forum, if a righty makes it is none or our business, when anyone else makes it it is everyone's business and for some reason a bad thing...
     
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The hell with Hamas if they want a fight give it to them, kill the bastards before they kill you, go get em Israel and remember they don't want you on this earth.
     
  19. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    This may well be the most ridiculous post you have ever made here in our forum.

    The Hamas people live on about $1,000 a year while the Hamas leadership is composed of millionaires and billionaires who siphon off aid money and solicit money from rich Sunni's in their corporation known as terrorism. Several of these people live safely in Qatar. You kill people and work up the ranks in Hamas and you become rich ... this is not rocket science. they do little to nothing to help the Palestinian people ... they use them.

    How about you research Hamas next time ... what are you on full troll mode today?
     
  20. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    So John Kerry is in Qatar to help forge a truce.
    Lots of USA allies all woven together supporting war, killing ... terrorism.

    Think about that for a moment ... he needs to speak with 2 of the highest backers of Hamas to get a truce ... turkey and Qatar.

    http://online.wsj.com/articles/u-s-meets-with-qatar-turkey-to-extend-gaza-cease-fire-1406384053

    http://www.dailysabah.com/politics/2014/07/25/turkey-key-to-gaza-ceasefire-says-us
     

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