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Hamas rejects another ceasefire

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by SalemPats, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...e-agreement-out-hamas-as-gaza-violence-rages/

    Secretary of State John Kerry's proposals for a cease-fire that would halt the fighting in the Gaza Strip have been resisted by the Islamic militant group Hamas

    I say take them out even more. Bring Hamas to their knees and then hopefully with the West bank the fighting can lead to a two-state solution. Sometimes you need to destroy to re-build. It sounds bad, but that's the truth.
     
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    What is there in Gaza to "destroy" other than the population? And if Gaza is "destroyed," what need would there be for Israel to agree to a two-state solution?

    Just askin.....
     
  3. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Gaza is on the west (near the Egyptian border and the med sea). The two-state solution would be with the west bank on the eastern border. Once you take Hamas out, you take the major terrorist group out of the Palestinean group.
     
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Given the choice between having a state and all the boring stuff that comes with it like building schools, providing infrastructure, etc. and Jew-killing, they always choose Jew-killing.
     
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  5. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    #12 Jersey

    1) does this need it's own thread when we have two on this already?

    2) does even the slightest bit of intelligence ever come out of your posts Salem? So far I've failed to see any.

    Destroy to rebuild? Destroy what? Palestine? You can take out Hamas' leaders all you want; new ones will just replace them and the more their support will grow as civilians are continually massacred. Israel are breeding voters/members for Hamas with this relentless onslaught that's actually hurting innocent people more than it is Hamas.

    The UN have announced Israel could face investigations for war crimes. Good.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WAR DIMS HOPE FOR PEACE
     
  7. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    And subsequently have opened the door for Palestinian youth and children to become more radicalized against Israel than ever after watching their family, friends, and homes being destroyed.

    Then a militant group, likely much worse than Hamas will end up filling the vacuum of armed resistance.

    Not that Hamas will be destroyed, of course. Just following along the logic of Salem's hypothetical.
     
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  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You all will be under Muslim Rule someday, they sense the weakness, they are patient, it will be bad, you will convert or you will die, the new American left wing love affair with them won't help, they detest liberalism's tolerance of immorality, Hollywood will be destroyed in fire, the left wing media Moguls and all of MSNBC's talking heads will be stoned to death.
    Jesus Saves
     
  9. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Thanks for the heads up, bud...
     
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  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree. You can't pummel these people into peace. You only tend to create a more determined enemy. Sometimes Israel is it's own worst enemy. Of course, like someone mentioned above, if the choice for Palestinians is between building schools or killing jews, they'd choose to kill jews. It's why there will never be peace their in our lifetimes unfortunately.

    The UN. LOL.
     
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  11. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Are you going to differentiate between civilians and Hamas? Or are you simply suggesting Palestinians overall have a blood thirst that super cedes the desire to live a life of normalcy (to which they are mostly denied) ?

    Defend Israeli policy all you want. However kicking and demeaning the Palestinian people while they are down and dying is despicable.

    800 Palestinians are dead, 70% civilians in what the IDF calls "incredible restraint". God forbid that an international body is even considering there being some war crimes involved.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  12. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Do you honestly think that Israel is targeting civilians? Because if they were, 560 civilians dead is doing a pretty awful job.

    So what's more likely...Israel is targeting civilians or Hamas is using civilians as human shields?

    Also, I've asked this question and have yet to receive a reasonable response from any Progressive in this forum....how should Israel handle this situation?

    The only answer I've received thus far is......"differently" :rolleyes:
     
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  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    First off, learn how to read. Did I defend Israeli policy? I said they are there own worst enemy sometimes, which is anything but an endorsement. Second of all, with respect to the Palestinians...




    Generally speaking, I'm sure there are upstanding civilians who just want a normal life. I've said repeatedly that they live like caged animals, which none of us would ever like. Still, they elected Hamas. To me, there will never be peace their in my lifetime, because neither side trusts the other, and will only be satisfied when one is destroyed.

    The UN...LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Targeting directly? No. Going out of their way to ensure there aren't civilian casualties? Maybe, maybe not.
     
  15. UK_Pat37

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    #12 Jersey

    Israel aren't deliberately targeting civilians, no. Well...I say that...but none of us know what is actually going on in the Government's minds.

    They say, "Well we warned them to get out, but they didn't."

    How does that justify their actions?

    They're basically saying, "We warned them to get out, they hadn't, so we bombed the s*** out of it anyway."

    That school that got obliterated is a UN facility, where Palestinians were seeking shelter. This is one of the very few places they can find safety. Isrealis are ugring them to go to safe places yet they;re bombing those too.

    They have no care in the world and what they are doing is a crime in tiself. They should certainly be investigated, along with Hamas.
     
  16. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Four cease-fire proposals have been accepted by Israel, and subsequently rejected by Hamas. It seems rather apparent that one side is eager to end the conflict (Israel), but the other wishes to continue (Hamas).

    As far as the UN compounds go, Hamas has no problem placing rockets for storage inside UN schools, nor using them for staging attacks.

    UNRWA Condemns Placement of Rockets, for a Second Time, in One of Its Schools

    As for the attack yesterday, Israel is questioning whether they were the ones who launched the attack, citing the fact that Hamas rockets fell in the area. Looking at the imagery, it's not hard to imagine why they question it.

    From the UN School:
    [​IMG]

    From a typical 160mm mortar (tank shells offer similar craters):
    [​IMG]

    From a Qassam Rocket:
    [​IMG]

    That said, it's possible Israel did hit the school and the why and how of the **** up will have to be investigated. Typically, Israel admits when they **** up on something like this (see various attacks in Lebanon). We will see.

    What's tragic is the loss of human life. Again, Israel has expressed a desire to end the conflict; Hamas wishes to continue. That says a lot to me.
     
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  17. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    #12 Jersey

    Okay, I'll scracth 15 deaths from their total. Makes it all the more better.

    There will have been Hamas rockets falling in Gaza...Israel have made many incursions accross the border therefore you have to imagine Hamas fire would have been directed at them.

    Israel could have every reason to lie. An attack like that one is a PR disaster when the West is gradually losing patience with Israel and their brute tactics. They are fast losing support in Europe especially. Both people here and our media are turning against Israel.

    Worth noting; Israel have also rejected conidions for peace plans.

    The notion Israel is a Saint in this is my problem. Both as bad as each other and both should face investigations for their actions.

    Also, if killing civilians in Gaz wasn't enough, they're now using 'riot disposal means' a.k.a. shooting at people to kill three more in the West Bank.

    There are such thngs as water canons...but the middle east is so far back-dated they still think shooting at them is acceptable.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  18. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Are you a religious muslim?
     
  19. SalemPats

    SalemPats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    you do realize they were already radicalized. Islam is holding them back. All religions are backwards and especially ones that dehumanize and degrade woman by making them wear the veil
     
  20. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Again, I'll ask.......what should Israel do?

    And one more time....seeing that there are 560 civilan deaths and not 10,000....what is more likely, Israel is targeting civilians or Hamas is using it's own people as human shields?
     

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